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teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2996
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 12:15 pm: | 
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In our discussions about the rightness or wrongness of the different wage systems between the service staff and the kitchen staff, it might seem that I've given them short shrift, and that's not my intent. In fact, I have the utmost respect for those who cook, mainly because I'm actively interested in cooking myself and I understand the skill required to do it well, whether you're a short-order cook serving meatloaf and burgers or whether you are a line cook in a high-volume mass market restaurant producing food for 300 people a night.
When I call it a "production position", I should probably more accurately characterize it as a "production/craft/art" position. That would show it more respect and also acknowledge the craft and art elements of cooking.
To compare it to the arts and crafts worlds, the artist/cook makes a "product" (for lack of a better word) and then turns it over to someone to sell it (and of course sometimes they sell it to the end buyer themselves in which case they keep all of the "profit"). That person usually takes the item on consignment and then gets a percentage of the sales price as their payment. It's the similar thing in a restaurant - they are paid to produce an item to spec according to an accepted pay scale and the server acts almost as an agent who receives a commission for selling it. While we as servers don't take it "on consignment" per se, we also don't buy it and then resell it. We simply sell it on commission but the commission isn't rolled into the price as it is with other goods. It's not a perfect analogy but it's not a bad one either.
One thing that prompted me to write this was seeing Tom Collichio (former chef at Grammercy Tavern, chef/owner of Craftsteak, Craftbar and head judge on Top Chef) on Charlie Rose last night. Some people on this forum refuse to believe that food is actually secondary to service when it comes to repeat business in restaurants.
He pointed out that surveys have shown that food is actually 3rd on the list - the first being recognized and made to feel at home, the second being service and then food. And this doesn't demean the importance of food to the dining experience, it's just that people value other things slightly more. They went on to talk about a NYC restaurant that Collichio worked with under Thomas Keller that failed spectacularly despite having world-class food (Rakel).
So, when I say things like "Service trumps food", it's not intended to be a diss of the kitchen. It's just basically the way it is.
And when I discuss cooks and chefs, it's with the utmost respect for what they do.
Just wanted to make that clear. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1430
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 12:31 pm: |
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I've always believed that as well and I'm not surprised with any study that would rate from most important: feel at home (atmosphere), to service, to food. Some will feel otherwise, but I have been in a lot of restaurants having a loud and disturbing atmosphere, but the food was fantastic. I won't go back because of the atmosphere and I'll miss the food.
Service and Food are really close to one another. If service sucks, you forget the food, whether it's good or not. You remember the horrible time you had, or the long wait on your food because the server forgot to ring it in, etc.
On the other hand, I've had great service at some slop houses and I'll go back and order something different and ask for my same server because they do such a good job.
People like paid-up could argue the other way, and that's fine because his needs are to have a plate in front of him, not service. But they are far and few compared to what we like when we go out to eat.
Interesting information. |
kris
Member
Username: kris
Post Number: 177
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 03:23 pm: |
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"Service trumps food" - unless you're my spouse! Yes, he's very picky. |
kelly
Intermediate Member
Username: kelly
Post Number: 308
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 01:04 am: |
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I agree that poor service can ruin a dining experience, no matter how good the food may have been. However I cannot agree that great service can make up for poor food. For me, the best service in the world won't get me to come back to a restaurant that has lousy food. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 3001
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 09:19 am: |
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But you'll suffer lousy service for great food?
Fair enough.
And I'm glad that Kris' husband isn't picky when it comes to service. It makes our job easier. |
goldenfoxx
Member
Username: goldenfoxx
Post Number: 231
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 03:25 am: |
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I must admit though, from my own perspective, that restaurants these days need all facets...not just service and not just food and even atmosphere....its a tripod of columns holding up the whole experience. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1434
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 08:55 am: |
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Agreed, Goldenfoxx.
I would think that people measure the restaurant if they are visiting the place for the first time on all aspects. Food quality and quantity. Service. Atmosphere.
Place that people go back to on a regular basis can be more forgiving on each aspect, except maybe the atmosphere. If it's always loud, then unless you like that type of environment; you'll probably stop coming.
If service is always slow, server have a bad attitude and you're always on a wait; I may see some people coming back once or twice.
If you get a bad steak, you can always get it for free or try it again later, or even try something else on the menu.
As I have said before, it's based on the customers needs and wants:
Paid-up: Food in face, leave me alone.
Neecey: Server nice and pleasant, food should be good.
Some people: I won't eat in the place unless I have my server who has given me great service each time I came in. Food? Oh yeah, I came in to eat. |
paid_up
Advanced Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 814
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 10:24 am: |
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Food,food,food, it's about the food. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1435
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 11:34 am: |
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See? Told you so. lol |
neecey93
Advanced Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 624
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 05:58 pm: |
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Voz said:
Neecey: Server nice and pleasant, food should be good.
Neecey said:
Thanx for getting my hypothetical right. Appreciate it. ;-)
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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kris
Member
Username: kris
Post Number: 182
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 11:03 pm: |
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"And I'm glad that Kris' husband isn't picky when it comes to service. It makes our job easier."
I didn't say he didn't care about poor service. It's just if he didn't like the food, we won't be back, even if was excellent service. At least without twisting his arm. Now if we had a tasty meal with lousy service, we probably would be back, try it again with, hopefully, a different server. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 3058
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 12:09 pm: |
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"isn't as picky as he is about service as he is about food" then. That's what I meant anyway. Didn't mean to say that he didn't care at all about service. Sorry. |
ohioborn
Member
Username: ohioborn
Post Number: 171
Registered: 07-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 04, 2009 - 04:19 am: |
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I have to agree with Kris on that one. I would be the same way; if the food was lousy, but the service was great, I would not be back. However, if the food was great, and the service was poor, I might try it one more time, just to see if the poor service was a abnormal event. To me, in general, there seems to be a much wider variation in possible service levels within a restaurant (and for a myriad of reasons), than there is in the overall quality of the food served.
However, if I went back to the same restaurant with the great food and the bad service, and had the bad service again, I probably would not go back, one reason being there are so many great restaurants in my area that I can easily find a great food/average-to-great service restaurant. There is a lot of good competition in the restaurant business, that's for sure. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 3065
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 04, 2009 - 09:19 am: |
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"To me, in general, there seems to be a much wider variation in possible service levels within a restaurant (and for a myriad of reasons), than there is in the overall quality of the food served".
I would agree with that sentiment.
Still doesn't change the statistics, or the viewpoint within the restaurant industry.
Personally, unless a restaurant really drops the ball, I'm going to give them a second chance, food OR service.
In fact, I've only dropped one restaurant in the past ten years. It was a restaurant that I had been to several times and enjoyed the food and the service immensely. I've told the story here before. And once our watiress displayed that sort of behavior, I was never going to darken the door of the restaurant again, no matter whether she was possibly there or not. of course, I don't have to worry about that happening, since they're closed. |
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