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teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2948
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 12:56 pm: | 
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There has been a lot of vague talk from non-restaurant people about the effect of wages vs. tipping and the relative costs of operating expenses of restaurants. I thought I'd copy a sample income statement from the textbook, "Principles of Food, Beverage and Labor" by Paul R. Dittmer. The formatting may not come out very clearly here, so I apologize in advance if it's hard to read.
Obviously, this is a hypothetical restaurant. In fact, it's a hypothetically rather mediocre restaurant) But the principles fall in line roughly with reality (obviously, there will be some variation based on the size, scale, and type of restaurant.
The Rush Hour Inn income statement
Sales
Food $1,533,400
Beverage $ 270,600 Total $1,804,000
Cost of Sales
Food $644,028
Beverage $ 86,592
Total Cost of Sales $730,620
Gross Profit $1,073,380
Controllable Expenses
Salaries and Wages $487,080
Employee Benefits $121,770
Other controllable Expenses $220,600
Total $829,450
Income before Occupancy costs, Interest, Depreciation, and Income Taxes $243,930
Occupancy costs $120,553
Interest $27,060
Depreciation $60,200
Total $207,813
Restaurant Profit $36,117
Most restaurants do a bit better than this 3% bottom line profit. The average has historically been around 6% (although I'll bet that has dropped in the past two years).
The book goes on to show the balance sheet of a smaller restaurant that is run more efficiently (if you want me to post the balance sheet from the second restaurant, I will). Instead of a profit/cost ratio of $36k/$1mil, it shows a ratio of $106K/$616k. This is an example of the absolute best case scenario of 17% profit margin. Few restaurants achieve this sort of "perfection" , while more than a few restaurants underperform even the 3% example that was given (remember that 60% of all restaurants fail within the first 5 years).
In the "wages" area of the smaller, more efficient restaurant, you see $185k instead of $487K. This is a 37% difference. However, sales shows a 57% difference (the more "efficient restaurant has over half fewer sales but has employee wages only a third of the less efficient restaurant).
This doesn't prove anything about wages vs. wages+tips per se. My point is, wages are the second largest single expense in a restaurant, not the cost of chairs or stoves or the rent or advertising. I've worked in two restaurants that had around $2mil in sales (only a medium sized restaurant by today's standards - my current restaurant has over $6mil).
If you look at the mix of staff, you had the following rough dinner shift breakdown:
Restaurant A (brewpub and full restaurant with 150 seats not counting the bar. No reservations are taken - it's first come first served):
GM/AGM Manager (salary including 2 weeks paid vacation)
Kitchen manager (salary including 2 weeks paid vacation)
4-5 hourly kitchen employees (at around $10 an hour - this was early 90s, including 1 week paid vacation to go to 2 weeks paid vacation after 5 years)
2 bartenders at $4.50 an hour plus tips (no paid vacation)
10 servers at 2.13 an hour. (no paid vacation)
That's a lot of manhours at 2.13 an hour that would have to accounted for if they were to recieve hourly or yearly salaries. Servers there averaged 25 - 35 hours a week. Shift hours could be anywhere from 1 hour in the case of someone getting to go home because of expected slow business to 8 hrs.
Restaurant B (130 seat not counting the bar bistro type restaurant managed by the two co-owners - dinner only - reservations comprised about 85% of all the business)
Manager (one of the owners - drew a salary)
Executive chef (salary - 5 - 6 days a week minus 2 weeks paid vacation)
Sous chef (salary - 5 - 6 days a week minus 2 weeks paid vacation)
Kitchen staff (including 1 day prep person) 5 (around $12/hr)
2 bartenders 6 nights a week, 1 bartender on Sunday) $4.50/hr + tips (1 week paid vacation at minimum wage rate)
10 servers 6 nights a week, 5-7 on Sunday night (1 week paid vacation at minimum wage, although most tipped employees never took it because it would cost them money) Shift hours could be anywhere from 0 in the case of lack of reservations - one might be called to stay home - to around 8 hours. Because of the nature of the business, most servers would work around 6 hours, but there were times when you might end up staying until midnight or later.
Hope this gives some sort of perpective on the effect on menu prices if you had to pay the bulk of your staff a "wage", especially if it were to stay close to what they were making what the market has determined they are worth. |
neecey93
Intermediate Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 560
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 01:50 pm: |
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well alot more work would be involved with regards to scheduling 10 servers if a wage were in place. Managers would have a huge responsibilty when it comes to skilled employees and those who can't cut it. Being responsible for day to day decisions regarding when to cut back and when to allow more hours.
There would also be a need to switch the mentality of what a starting wage should be for a server. $8-$10 an hour is the typical starting wage in a lot of industries especially industries not requiring college education. I don't see why this is such an insulting consideration. As for more seasoned servers and fine dining then of course that wage would reflect it. The price skyrockets in these hypotheticals because they still take into account the $18-$21 an hour numbers servers make now with tips. So the prices would go up but not astronomical, if you don't plan on paying your servers $20 to start.
Finer dining would just be that much more expensive because these establishment can't afford to go too much lower than what servers are making now. However anyone who can afford those prices as is probably won't bat an eye at prices rising another **%.
(Message edited by neecey93 on August 21, 2009)
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2953
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 02:09 pm: |
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"There would also be a need to switch the mentality of what a starting wage should be for a server. $8-$10 an hour is the typical starting wage in a lot of industries especially industries not requiring college education. I don't see why this is such an insulting consideration".
Try the job and get back to me. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2954
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 02:17 pm: |
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"The price skyrockets in these hypotheticals because they still take into account the $18-$21 an hour numbers servers make now with tips. So the prices would go up but not astronomical, if you don't plan on paying your servers $20 to start".
More like $12 - 18/hr, especially when you take into account lunch vs. dinner. For the entire time I've worked as a server leading up to my true "fine dining" current job (including my "fine dining bistro job"), I always averaged about $16/hr, especially after I got mostly night shifts. When I had mostly lunch shifts, it was more like $12/hr.
Now I average around $22/hr in the highest earning restaurant in my town (excluding bars). But then again, it's $75 per head at dinner and around $20 per head at lunch (I have 2 -3 lunch shifts per week and my total hours are somewhere around 35 per week).
Of course, averages in Manhattan will be skewed upwards, as are the rents and the menu prices, so it's hard to include Manhattan in any "average" calculations. |
neecey93
Intermediate Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 562
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 02:25 pm: |
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Teleburst said:
Try the job and get back to me.
Neecey said:
It's not about what I feel the job is worth. It's about starting wages, the workplace and the industry. There are plenty of back breaking hard labor jobs that require a different set of rigerous demands that don't start at $21 or even $11 an hour. Like I said the mentalities need to change as to what's an appropriate starting wage for something that lacks a good number of requirements other jobs look for.
There's a benefit in being able to have a job without a college education which is being able to work and being able to get your foot in the door with little or no experience, then working your way up. That's one of the hardest things with most industries, just getting in the door if you've managed even getting an interview. Even in retail. I don't think there should also be the added bonus of starting at even $15 an hour. That seems imbalanced. Does the job deserve good pay, absolutely. To start? I question. Dealing with people annoying or otherwise while accomplishing the demands of your employer isn't a unique position to be in no matter how much skill is involved with being a server.
(Message edited by neecey93 on August 21, 2009)
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2957
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 02:34 pm: |
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Your post is just blah blah blah. The market and the consumer have determined the worth of the server, not some arbitrary comparison to dissimilar jobs.
That's all I'm sayin'. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1417
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 02:50 pm: |
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Like I said the mentalities need to change as to what's an appropriate starting wage for something that lacks a good number of requirements other jobs look for.
This would be impossible. How is a job measured and by who's standards. Of course, most people would assume the back breaking jobs like digging ditches or trashman would deserve a lot in my opinion. What about Teachers? No back breaking there, but I'm sure everyone on this board thinks they deserve more. Cops? Firefighters? Yeah, I'd love to see them earn more.
Realitors. Thats not back breaking, but it can be stressful, yet they have a high quality of money coming in after gaining experience in the field.
Car Sales is the same.
Doctors get paid a lot due to education needs and skill, as well as nurses.
Servers get paid in the form of tips based on the level of service they gave. Immediate measure by the customer, not a measurment of the market. How does the market know the value of my service level? Service at Denny's maybe great, while the service at Ruth's Chris sucks. How is it fair for the servers in the market to be earning more working at one place and less at another. Tipping eliminates that equation.
Bankers, Lawyers, Architects, Marketing, Stock Brokers, etc all make good money, but aren't back breaking.
Then there is the entertainment world. Don't get me started on the number of people making WAY more money than they should. I don't have sympathy for people paying 10,000.00 for a purse or a hot rock massage and then gets swarmed by the media 'paparazzi'.
Like I said. Impossible. |
neecey93
Intermediate Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 564
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 02:59 pm: |
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Teleburst said:
The market and the consumer have determined the worth of the server, not some arbitrary comparison to dissimilar jobs.
Neecey said:
It's sad that the reality frightens you so. Are you afraid that by the normal industry standards you're current worth wouldn't be validated? I don't think you should be worried. Time and experience are on your side which should be the case with anyone making $20 an hour in ANY industry.
Blah, blah, blah to other's who earn a living doing very hard work?? That pretty much sums up why I take your opinions with grain of salt if you think hard back breaking labor doesn't hold a candle to what you do... What a laugh.
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2960
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 03:00 pm: |
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"Realtors. Thats not back breaking, but it can be stressful, yet they have a high quality of money coming in after gaining experience in the field".
Plus, many, if not most of them, have to actually pay their agency to work there.
"Servers get paid in the form of tips based on the level of service they gave. Immediate measure by the customer, not a measurment of the market. How does the market know the value of my service level"?
Actually, as I am fond of pointing out, it IS the market that determines our wages. the market is what the customer is willing to pay for the product/service.
"Bankers, Lawyers, Architects, Marketing, Stock Brokers, etc all make good money, but aren't back breaking".
Sometimes "mind breaking" though. Look at Bernie Madoff for example. Totally lost his moral compass in a big way. |
neecey93
Intermediate Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 565
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 03:06 pm: |
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Voz said:
This would be impossible.
Neecey said:
I agree.
Voz said:
What about Teachers? No back breaking there, but I'm sure everyone on this board thinks they deserve more. Cops? Firefighters? Yeah, I'd love to see them earn more.
Neecey said:
Can't agree more which is what's insulting about servers making more than them.
Voz said:
How does the market know the value of my service level?
Neecey said:
How does the market know the value of any job out there?
Voz said:
How is it fair for the servers in the market to be earning more working at one place and less at another.
Neecey said:
Same way starting wage at Ann Taylor is about $10 where as starting at the Gap is $8. Ann Taylor is a more high end shop, higher prices. Both are still just salespeople.
Voz said:
Then there is the entertainment world. Don't get me started on the number of people making WAY more money than they should.
Neecey said:
That's another travesty.
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2962
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 03:18 pm: |
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"Neecey said:
Same way starting wage at Ann Taylor is about $10 where as starting at the Gap is $8. Ann Taylor is a more high end shop, higher prices. Both are still just salespeople".
But not salespeople in the sense that servers (or other commission-based salespeople)are. That's why comparing the two occupations can be misleading.
"Voz said:
Then there is the entertainment world. Don't get me started on the number of people making WAY more money than they should.
Neecey said:
That's another travesty".
And yet, once again, the market has spoken. It's YOU who's willing to pay $10 for a movie ticket or $100 for cable TV. and for everyone who makes millions in the entertainment field, there are a thousand who don't. In fact, many of them are also servers or sales clerks <g>. |
neecey93
Intermediate Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 567
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 03:32 pm: |
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Teleburst said:
But not salespeople in the sense that servers (or other commission-based salespeople)are. That's why comparing the two occupations can be misleading.
Neecey said:
Okay: Same way starting wage at X is about $10 where as starting at Y is $8. X is a more high end place of business, higher prices. Both are still just workers in the same industry".
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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paid_up
Advanced Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 803
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 21, 2009 - 05:01 pm: |
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Teachers have a very important job, servers bring the food. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1418
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 10:24 am: |
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I would think bringing the food is rather important if your dining out, wouldn't you think?
I hear so many people *cough* lords *cough* complaining about the food taking a long time to come out, so I'm assuming there is something important about it. At least for her, anyway.
But I agree with the teacher comment. Their job is very important, indeed. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2971
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 03:49 pm: |
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"Teleburst said:
But not salespeople in the sense that servers (or other commission-based salespeople)are. That's why comparing the two occupations can be misleading.
Neecey said:
Okay: Same way starting wage at X is about $10 where as starting at Y is $8. X is a more high end place of business, higher prices. Both are still just workers in the same industry".
In the same way that a car salesperson is "in the same industry" as a store clerk, I suppose. |
neecey93
Intermediate Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 574
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 08:58 pm: |
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Teleburst said:
In the same way that a car salesperson is "in the same industry" as a store clerk, I suppose.
Neecey said:
You can suppose all you want but that's not the main focus of the example. Leave the X and Y variables as is and focus on the rest of it.
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2973
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 09:45 am: |
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"Teleburst said:
In the same way that a car salesperson is "in the same industry" as a store clerk, I suppose.
Neecey said:
You can suppose all you want but that's not the main focus of the example. Leave the X and Y variables as is and focus on the rest of it".
Let's look at this a little closer.
I claimed that being a salesperson in retail is different than being a salesperson in retail. As voz pointed out, a salesperson in retail isn't a salesperson in the way that someone "in sales" is. Someone "in sales" derives most or all their income from sales. A salesperson in retail dervices only incidental income from sales - they might get the occasional little bonus or spiff but are basically paid by the hour and are there to "assist" the customer (most of which don't usually need much more help than being pointed to the correct shelf of the store). While they might sell something directly occasionally, they don't base their income on their sales.
And don't take it personally. It's not a diss of the job. Retail store clerks are an important part of the retail experience. And there are some such clerks that actually are partly sales people (electronic stores are a good example). I'm not saying that being a sales person in the classical sense is "better" - it's just different.
OTOH, when you are "in sales", you receive your income directly from what you sell. Servers, car salespeople, mortgage brokers, real estate agents and the like are a different breed.
So, comparing one store clrek from another based on their hourly income is irrelevant to determining the differences between them and commission-based salespeople like servers.
Just don't confuse what you do with "sales". My dad was a "salesman" in the truest sense (and a traveling one to boot). |
neecey93
Intermediate Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 576
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 12:50 pm: |
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Teleburst said:
And don't take it personally. It's not a diss of the job. Retail store clerks are an important part of the retail experience.
Neecey said:
And I don't. I am just trying to get you to hear the point without getting so caught up in semantics. My post was responding to Voz's example of "How is it fair for the servers in the market to be earning more working at one place and less at another". I pointed out how that happens all the time regardless of the industry. I'm not going to get into what is and isn't sales. Different pay at different companies for the same job isn't unusual is what I was referring to.
(Message edited by neecey93 on August 25, 2009)
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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neecey93
Intermediate Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 577
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 01:19 pm: |
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Another thing you seem to forget is that just because the pay scheme is different doesn't change what is done completely. I sell stuff. Just because I'm not on commission doesn't mean I'm not selling a product. Selling a product using product knowledge and by reading the customers as well as using tricks of the trade is in fact being a sales person. Just because it's at the gap doesn't change that. Just because people are coming to the store doesn't mean they are ready to purchase anything. A lot just drop in with NO intentions of purchasing so when they walk out with an item that means someone SOLD them something and not just handed them what they asked for. The fact that it's not EXACTLY the definition of what YOU believe it to be doesn't change what it actually is. Just thought I'd clear up what I find is at fault with your reasoning on the subject.
I'm not puffing anything up I mean show me where my example isn't true or CAN'T be considered selling a product? Or maybe it's because of the the mixture of employees. The one's that don't take thier quotas seriously and the one's that do. I can see where you would doubt that there were actual salepeople in the bunch but there are. The full time employees as well as the senior employees because they know that come review time it'll affect their wages. It's all the part of the same story. Work harder, polish your skills, sell more, get more hours, make more. A pretty basic concept in most any industry.
Yes, knowing how much the item will stretch, inches of shrinkage, what it's made of, how it's made, if it runs big, whether its a top seller, or if it's big on the return list, what's available in stores and what's only on-line, etc. are considered skills since you use this knowledge while dealing with the costumer. It isn't just the random acts of pulling something off the shelves you keep refering to. That might have been your experience but when selling people clothes there's more involved than just pointing someone to the fitting room. Does every customer require that? No, I admit but not every customer just walks in like a zombie brings an item to the register, gets rung up then leaves. That's ridiculous to imply.
Should we get tipped? Hey why not, we've had customers try so it isn't really a stretch. :-)
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2975
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 04:03 pm: |
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"Should we get tipped"?
A better question should be, "Should I work on commission"?
"I'm not puffing anything up I mean show me where my example isn't true or CAN'T be considered selling a product"?
First, show me where I say that. Actually, I said this:
"I claimed that being a salesperson in retail is different than being a salesperson in retail".
Once again - can I have some of what you're smoking? |
neecey93
Intermediate Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 579
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 04:46 pm: |
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Teleburst said:
First, show me where I say that. Actually, I said this:
Neceey said:
Well considering I was just making a statement...
Did I use quotes...???
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2979
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 02:43 pm: |
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"Neceey said:
Well considering I was just making a statement..."
Oh, another one of your random statements that had nothing to do with anyone or anything. It didn't have anything to do with my statement about comparing sales with "sales". OK.
So we'll just let the challenge go by the wayside. I won't "show you" anything. You were probably just talking to your cat. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2982
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 02:51 pm: |
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"Does every customer require that? No, I admit but not every customer just walks in like a zombie brings an item to the register, gets rung up then leaves. That's ridiculous to imply".
What's ridiculous to imply is that most people need anything more than a modicum of help.
Gee, you need to know a handful of things about your product. Wow. |
neecey93
Intermediate Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 585
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 05:12 pm: |
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Teleburst said:
Oh, another one of your random statements that had nothing to do with anyone or anything.
Neecey said:
Well shame on me for the randomness. You know you keep scolding me and yet..... :-)
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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neecey93
Intermediate Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 586
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 05:20 pm: |
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Teleburst said:
What's ridiculous to imply is that most people need anything more than a modicum of help.
Neecey said:
Not implying. I'm stating that it's required at my location and other locations in Manhattan that's I've work. How funny, that you insist on trying to hold some authority at what someone else does at their place of business. :-0 But I know you can't hear me being that you keep covering your ears and screaming LALALALA. :-)
Teleburst said:
Gee, you need to know a handful of things about your product. Wow.
Neecey said:
Well you can call it a handful of things but it's for mostly every product we carry...men's women's, kids, baby, intimates, maternity, on-line, jeans, trousers, blazers, etc. etc. etc..... Oh and notice how I don't say anything about how easy pouring wine is (because I would never attempt to try and speak fact about something I've never had to do) but then again that's just your way isn't it? :-0
(Message edited by neecey93 on August 26, 2009)
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2986
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 05:51 pm: |
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Well, you can say what you want. You can puff up your job to being equal to being a brain surgeon (or a server). I'll disagree with your charactization of the job of being a shopgirl.
I'm so glad that you can define what a waistline is for a clueless customer though. Congrats! |
neecey93
Intermediate Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 595
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 05:59 pm: |
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Teleburst said:
I'm so glad that you can define what a waistline is for a clueless customer though. Congrats
Neecey said:
What's the matter Teleburst your pants on too tight..??? Maybe you do need some of my expertise. Hee!
Teleburst said:
I'll disagree with your charactization of the job of being a shopgirl.
Neecey said:
Which is your right. I think I've made it clear that your opinion is biased especially after you've ignored a good number of points I've made clinging to your inauthenic accounts of what MY job entails. Tootles! ;-)
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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neecey93
Intermediate Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 597
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 06:04 pm: |
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Teleburst said:
being equal to being a brain surgeon (or a server).
Neecey said:
Oh and Wow, just Wow! ROTF! LMAO!
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2989
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 06:12 pm: |
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"Wow, just Wow!"
<jingling>
Here's something shiny to focus on.
"Neecey said:
What's the matter Teleburst your pants on too tight..??? Maybe you do need some of my expertise"
I'll just leave the cash on the night table. But you'll have to come up with the cash for the cabbie tip yourself. |
neecey93
Intermediate Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 598
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 10:30 pm: |
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I'll just leave the cash on the night table. But you'll have to come up with the cash for the cabbie tip yourself.
Teleburst said:
I'll just leave the cash on the night table. But you'll have to come up with the cash for the cabbie tip yourself.
Neecey said:
Uhmmmm what? I'm not understanding... Oh well, when you make sense then feel free to post. Hee!
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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paid_up
Advanced Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 810
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 05:33 am: |
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Teleburst, is it constipation? |
goldenfoxx
Member
Username: goldenfoxx
Post Number: 233
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 03:46 am: |
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Voz said:
What about Teachers? No back breaking there, but I'm sure everyone on this board thinks they deserve more. Cops? Firefighters? Yeah, I'd love to see them earn more.
Neecey said:
Can't agree more which is what's insulting about servers making more than them.
You know I've said it before....there have been a ton of teachers and firemen and cops that have worked as servers ... and know the level of compensation compared to their present job. How come we don't see any of them returning to serving if their compensation as teachers is so bad??? I would cry too many tears for those poor maltreated teacher, and fire men , and others ... the doors wide open for them to come back if thats what they wanted to do. |
paid_up
Advanced Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 815
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 10:31 am: |
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Why would they want to be like you you. They went on to bigger and better jobs. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1436
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 11:54 am: |
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Why would they want to be like you you. They went on to bigger and better jobs.
Congrats paid-up! You have shown me the light that so many people on the board have already seen.
*Marks paid-up on the ignore list*
Seeing as you have nothing constructive to add, you can continue on with your sad attempt of trolling.
Seeya. |
neecey93
Advanced Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 625
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 06:04 pm: |
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Goldenfoxx said:
You know I've said it before....there have been a ton of teachers and firemen and cops that have worked as servers ... and know the level of compensation compared to their present job. How come we don't see any of them returning to serving if their compensation as teachers is so bad???
Neecey said:
Maybe it's because they believe in their profession? I mean being a cop, fireman, teacher has a certain meaning attached to it besides salary, obviously.
Make love not war! Peace! 8-b
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goldenfoxx
Member
Username: goldenfoxx
Post Number: 237
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 02:12 am: |
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To neecey:
That is probably true that some find being a cop, or a fireman, or a teacher more rewarding than being a server, but your comment is that its insulting that servers CAN make more than them and that's really not a good statement when those people have the option to make server money again if they wished to take it.
Here is the question to all the servers who post here...anyone ever worked with a fellow server who used to be a fireman or a cop or a teacher. Please post their story... |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1437
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 10:32 am: |
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Here is the question to all the servers who post here...anyone ever worked with a fellow server who used to be a fireman or a cop or a teacher. Please post their story...
Pst, I got plenty of people I know who work BOTH jobs. Teacher, because that is what they went to school for and Server because the money is good.
Plus, to work during the day as a teacher and work at night a few nights a week helps them with paying the bills.
As far as cop, don't think it can be done due to hours of the police officer. I could be wrong. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 3041
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 11:05 am: |
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I worked with someone who was also a teacher (mostly substitute IIRC). I think that he pretty much went full-time teaching after a while (that was what he was going to do after all).
The only significant thing I can remember is that he couldn't get me any white chalk so that I could cover up stains on my cuffs. I remember being surprised about that because I assumed that, even in these days of white boards, teachers still used chalk on occasion. He couldn't even tell me where I could get any.
I worked with a lady in a previous restaurant who had a law degree (she worked in restaurants during all of her college). Now. four years later, she has her own office. She comes into the bar as a guest, not as a server. And I'll have to tell you, she was a crackerjack server, that's for sure.
One of our trainers is a full-time counselor at a local substance abuse organization. He's basically transitioning out of the restaurant world and he's only working around 3 or 4 shifts a week. He's finishing up his certifications and when he's finished certifying, he's done with the whole restaurant scene. Our other trainer is going to school pretty much full-time as well.
Don't think I've even known a police officer that's been a server (although I'm sure that some must have worked as a server during college like many students do) but I've known two cooks who have been on volunteer fire department staffs in rural areas. That doesn't count though.
A fellow server was my real estate agent when I bought my house. She was still working at the restaurant as she was establishing herself in the biz. the way the economy is going, she might very well be back in the restaurant business!
Real estate seems to be a fairly common "out", or at least it used to be. |
kris
Member
Username: kris
Post Number: 183
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 11:18 pm: |
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I used to think teachers were low income but the teachers in our district make on average between 60-75K a year and I'm in Ohio, plus they get great benefits. I don't think that's anything to sniff at. |
paid_up
Advanced Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 817
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 02:52 pm: |
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Don't worry, teleburst, goldielocks,and vos will still be servers with the tin cup in their hands for most of their lives. Just shaking that cup, please help me please I only make $2.13 an hour. |