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coorslite
Intermediate Member
Username: coorslite
Post Number: 368
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 01:20 am: | 
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There are alot of people on this board now that are I'm sure lord's demon spawn.
Breaking it down in really simple terms for you.... Servers get void to maybe $20 paychecks... They rely on tips. We are not here complaining that point. You trolls are. Do you really think that any one of us wants to take our void paycheck to the bank to make our car payment? Yes this is what we choose to do. It pays our bills and we deal with the public. Professional servers which we all are.... (SHUT UP LORDS... about the whatever I overcharged... don't beat a dead horse!) We do what we can to make your dinner enjoyable. If you do not want to go out to eat and tip...... Use your local Wendy's drive thru. Or cook at home.
So if you don't get the fact that your server is working to pay bills and is not there for the fun of serving rude ignorant trolls that are just scamming..Stop crying that you are too poor to tip. If you are too poor to tip don't eat out.
Yep we chose this profession. Hours suck, people suck... and if you don't like the fact that we are happy with what we do... too bad. Seems like the servers aren't doing the complaining.... just the trolls.
Lack of beer I think is my problem....... Maybe just that I don't get it. The public is getting out of control with the DEMANDS..... Some crackhead.. And yes she is called me "that bitch" tonight. I smiled and said yes I am. Why did she call me that? Because I wouldn't cash a check for her from another crackhead. So they could buy some more "roses" and "chore boys". Oh yea and she's on the bad check list for over $2000 in bouncing checks. Hmmmmm...... the public is to be catered to right?
So if you don't get that we are people trying to pay our bills and work hard for that little bit of crap you insist is what we deserve... keep your butt at home!!!!!!!!!!!! |
diner_1923
New member
Username: diner_1923
Post Number: 22
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 04:13 am: |
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why are we trolls just because we disagree with you? its funny- i used to be an incarnation of some other user on these boards (yakup i believe) but now it is unavoidable to realize that there are individuals who dont subscribe to your conception of socially acceptable behavior in restaurants and you tell to "stay at home" becuase you dont want to serve them as you know you will have to.
im still waiting for my contention to be argued against properly- it has been established on prior threads why i am not legally obligated to tip where you are legally obligated to serve (i am obligated legally to pay only menu price + tax by a contract i have with the manager, you are obligated to serve by a contract you have with the manager) and so why am i obligated to tip over that even a base 10%?
furthermore, why does one waiter deserve more money for serving a 100 steak than another deserves for serving a 50 dollar steak? this question has never been properly answered and i believe deserves proper attention. |
goldenfoxx
Member
Username: goldenfoxx
Post Number: 126
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 04:25 am: |
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>>>furthermore, why does one waiter deserve more money for serving a 100 steak than another deserves for serving a 50 dollar steak? this question has never been properly answered and i believe deserves proper attention.
Well to answer your question, its really a level of service. When you go into a limited service restaurant, and you order a $20 dollar meal...usually the server is sharing your service with another 4-6 other tables (rough guestamit). When you go to a restraunt that serves a $40 dollar steak, you will usually have a server that has only 2 other tables, a dedicated serving assistant(not some busser that only resets tables and shares half the restaurant, and maybe a sommelier.) At $100 plus prix fixe dining places, usually you have a captain, a server or backwaiter a sommelier a busperson, and others(runners, breadmakers..ect, ect) all sharing about three table. When you go and spend $100 on some gourmet meal (generally) you have alot more service and attention. You might think that you are tipping the server more but you are really tipping the server the same amount and the rest is going to the other personnel.
Basically (and I must say this is generally because some dining establishments try to get away with less) you are tipping for a higher level of service and your tip is generally split among more personnel than in some place like chili's.
Kinda tired so I hope that was clear. If you have any questions just let me know. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 1002
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 05:52 am: |
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"it has been established on prior threads why i am not legally obligated to tip where you are legally obligated to serve"
I'm not "legally" obligated to serve, except when it comes to race, religion or national origin. "Legally", I can choose not to serve you "properly" if you are simply cheap (and a restaurant is not "legally" obligated to even allow you in the door if you reufuse to tip - that's a judgment call up to a manager or owner).
Also, I guess you aren't familiar with the concept of "at will employment". We (and most likely you for that matter) don't have an employment contract with our employer. I can quit at any time and I can be fired at any time for no reason. In fact, when you get hired, the employment manual specifically states this fact and that the manual is not to be construed as a contract.
So far, you're batting 0-2.
"furthermore, why does one waiter deserve more money for serving a 100 steak than another deserves for serving a 50 dollar steak? this question has never been properly answered and i believe deserves proper attention".
That one's been answered as well. Because tipping is considered 15% (or whatever) OF THE BILL. It's very similar to a commission, only it's not rolled into the price of the item. It's like asking, "Why is the commission on a new Bentley higher than it is on a new Hyundai"?
Oh yeah, what goldenfox said as well.
Any more obvious questions you want answered? I'm feeling charitble today. |
diner_1923
New member
Username: diner_1923
Post Number: 23
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 07:40 am: |
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you are not working off of commission buddy
i often get the same service at mortons as i do at outback in terms of the meal is properly served to me. deal with that as well.
i dont really care how you decide to split whatever money you think you deserve- you dont deserve more money in a more expensive restaurant so you can tip the bartender- i dont drink anyway. you can pour your own damn water as fara s im concerned.
i dont mean to sound rude becuase goldenfoxx is very civil, but teleburst has a bad attitude and gives me one as well.
if you dont have an employment contract is none of my concern- if you want to quit midshift go for it, but as long as you work in the restaurant you are obligated to serve the people who will pay your manager for his food. also, i dont pay commission when i buy a car- the dealership does and granted i pay for that in the sticker price but it is very different becuase that is on managments end- from my end im getting a car just the same. |
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 700
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 07:55 am: |
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mortons as i do at outback in terms of the meal is properly served to me.
If memory serves me, Outback servers don't bring a plate of meat over and explain the different grades and cuts that are served. Also, Outback is more of a casual bar type restaurant, while Mortons is an upscale dining restaurant. Servers in Outback need only know what beers on tap are, while the ones at Morton's need to be educated on the wines that go well with your $30.00 Filet.
the dealership does and granted i pay for that in the sticker price
Gee, something that would probably happen if everyone thought like you. Take that $30.00 Filet and make it $40. Happy now? |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 1003
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 08:38 am: |
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"you are not working off of commission buddy"
From www.dictonary.com
commisssion - com·mis·sion Pronunciation Key (k-mshn) n. - A fee or percentage allowed to a sales representative or an agent for services rendered.
"i often get the same service at mortons as i do at outback in terms of the meal is properly served to me. deal with that as well".
So, you often DON'T get the same service at Morton's as you do at Outback. Interesting. Can you also get that $100 steak at Outback as well? Do you get the polished Riedels for your bottle of wine? Do you get the rolling dessert cart? Do you get white tablecloths, fine china, heavy, upscale silverware, and servers who have been in the business for years? Do you get a good answer from your 21 year old server at Outback when you ask about a certain bottle of wine on the list?
"i dont really care how you decide to split whatever money you think you deserve- you dont deserve more money in a more expensive restaurant so you can tip the bartender"
So, you're saying that the bartender in an expensive place doesn't deserve a tip while the bartender at an inexpensive restaurant does. Well, THAT makes a lot of sense <cue>.
"- i dont drink anyway".
So? They still have to service your soda needs. It's not just shooting soda from a spout to the glass, you know.
"you can pour your own damn water as fara s im concerned".
Using this logic, you could pour YOUR OWN water since you aren't paying for me to service you. Here, I'll rent you a pitcher of water for $5.
"i dont mean to sound rude becuase goldenfoxx is very civil, but teleburst has a bad attitude and gives me one as well".
Well, you're pretty rude despite your best intentions. I don't give up the right to self-defense when you bombard the forum with questions that have been answered time and time again. If you refuse to listen and you persist, then you become like those horse flies that I have to swat away on the 13th hole of my favorite golf course (the short par five with the lake bordering the length of the left side).
"if you dont have an employment contract is none of my concern"
YOU brought it into the conversation as justification for your position, so apparently it *is* your concern. The fact that you were wrong about it must gall you, but that's no reason for me not to debunk that portion of your argument.
"if you want to quit midshift go for it, but as long as you work in the restaurant you are obligated to serve the people who will pay your manager for his food".
Not LEGALLY, which was your claim.
"also, i dont pay commission when i buy a car- the dealership does and granted i pay for that in the sticker price but it is very different becuase that is on managments end- from my end im getting a car just the same".
Yes, you pay the commission. The price of your car is the price of the car plus commission. The car dealer receives the commission from you and simply passes it along to the salesman (a salesman I might add receives NOT A PENNY of salary or hourly wage). You are good with not even knowing how much extra you are paying for the car over and above the "menu price" but you complain about being able to pay an appropriate amount for the service you receive when you take your spouse to dinner for your anniversary? Weird. YOU know, there's a REASON that you hold your anniversary at Morton's instead of McDonald's.
Finally, go to Morton's and don't tip. Tell us what happens when you try to patronize that restaurant multiple times. See if Morton's treats you like every other guest. See if they feel that they have a "legal obligation" to provide you with whatever level of service you expect or *any* service at all for that matter. You might be able to get away with it for a while as a walk-in at Outback (you'll be identified eventually anyway, even though you think you're blending into the crowd), but Morton's KNOWS their clientele quite well, partially because of the lower volume and 90% reservation clientele. Most of their success is knowing their guests. You would immediately be identified as a deadbeat, and it's quite possible that you would be refused entrance at some point, because no management team would tolerate disrespect to a highly experienced staff for very long. And, in the doubtful case that they allowed you to continue dining, they would tolerate their servers re-prioritizing their service to better accomodate their cherished guests. You would simply become a table that didn't need the attention that the other tables needed. |
rev_rund
New member
Username: rev_rund
Post Number: 44
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 09:04 am: |
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(i am obligated legally to pay only menu price + tax by a contract i have with the manager, you are obligated to serve by a contract you have with the manager)
I would like you to clear up what you mean by "legally". If you mean that the exchange of goods and services constitutes a legal agreement, then I guess you are right. However the manager/owner of the restaurant provides you with two items in this legal agreement, a good and a service, the good comes with a fixed cost the service with a variable cost. Legally, as a restauranteur I can add a fixed service charge to your bill, I and almost everyone else choose not to do this allowing this cost to be determined by you. If you choose to not pay the service charge simply because you don't want to then you have broken our agreement, and you will be penalized if you choose to return to my establishment with a very poor quality of service. Now just what do you mean that a server is "legally" obligated to server you? Nothing could be further from the truth, the server is only obligated to give you the service that management expects, there is no legal obligation anywhere to provide service. If you don't tip, and the server is valued as an employee, the manager in most cases will allow the server to give you bad service as a social penalty for refusing to pay the service portion of your bill. Now that I think about it, when you go out to eat why don't you just ask the manager of the restaurant to add a 10-15% service fee onto your bill? You don't have to call it a tip, just have them tack it on, you'll never have to worry about tipping again! |
rev_rund
New member
Username: rev_rund
Post Number: 45
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 09:35 am: |
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diner - I'm not calling you a troll, you are free to have your own oppinions but I have attempted to answer part 2 of your question ad nauseam, and it seems that you reject any answer given based on your belief that you are under no obligation to tip period. So, if you don't believe in tipping at all, how could I possibly "properly" answer a question that discusses tipping at different price levels? I think you need to reconcile the first part (why tip at all) before you have a rite to ask the second part. |
penelopemarie
New member
Username: penelopemarie
Post Number: 10
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 10:41 am: |
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hmmm well i still think he is a troll. he writes the same thing over and over, and just brushes any type of polite or heated discussion with well why is it like this and why is it not like this, well you still haven't answered the question. your questions have been answered over and over you just don't agree with the answers. that is not my problem. i don't agree with your bullshit of course. no matter how many articles and quotes you put i still think you are working way to hard looking for excuses not to tip. no matter how intelligent your answers sound, you are still viewed by a cheap troll that has another reason as to why come to bitch out servers and tell them that they are not worth more than what the establishment pays them. again i recommend you go into your regular restaurant and talk to the manager and tell him you do not believe in tipping. have him talk to his staff and see who would want to serve you. of course the manager HAS to look for someone to serve you, surely someone will. good luck with that. that of course will happen in a casual dinning establishment, for they will kiss a** to whatever prick decided to eat there. fine this doesn't mean that servers don't have there way around your bull**** so that you can't complain, you get mediocre service and you don't come back. go to a fancy high class place, or a privately owned restaurant and see just how the manager is going to treat you.
oh and i am not legally obligated to serve you at all. if i feel uncomfortable or threatened by you, or i know just how much of an prick you are, i know i shouldn't serve you. hell my manager knows it would not be a good idea to pair someone like you with someone like me. of course i am an appreciated server so if i play my cards right you will be the one getting thrown out and i will keep my job, hoping you would come back to do it all over again. |
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 701
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 11:29 am: |
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This is funny:
1: commisssion - com·mis·sion Pronunciation Key (k-mshn) n. - A fee or percentage allowed to a sales representative or an agent for services rendered.
3: Tip - (tip) n. Give a tip or gratuity to in return for a service, beyond the agreed-on compensation; "Remember to tip the waiter"; "fee the steward"
Boy these sure sound the same when you look at the definition in the dictionary. Are you going to argue with the dictionary next? |
penelopemarie
New member
Username: penelopemarie
Post Number: 11
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 12:01 pm: |
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probably...he'll say we were looking at the wrong dictionary...or that that definition is not relevant to his discussion.... |
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 702
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 12:12 pm: |
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Teehee. Always the case when people are trying to make changes on something that isn't broken. |
jammie
Senior Member
Username: jammie
Post Number: 1186
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 08:12 pm: |
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Yeah Voz, whats up with that? For gods sake dont tip then, if you dont agree with the system. But just leave it alone. |
coorslite
Intermediate Member
Username: coorslite
Post Number: 369
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 11:14 pm: |
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why are we trolls just because we disagree with you?
You are not a troll because you disagree. You are a troll because you don't listen to people that have done this for years. And to be honest diner I did not call any names. If someone has an intelligent response trying to explain to someone not in the business and it is ripped apart, then you are a troll. Believe it or not we all have walked a million miles in each others shoes. We know what it's like to deal with the public. We know why the system works. We know what it's like to be in the weeds from the minute we walk in the door until closing. We know that no matter what we have to what we have to do to make money to pay the bills. Trolls come here.... try to change the way we think... professional servers, in or have been in the business... But we KNOW (sorry about the lord's cap thing) what it's like. We know we do it day and night. We have witnessed more things in this life at our tables in one night than you could ever imagine. When you find a thred about us complaining... it's because we've waited on too many people in one night with no social skills. Yet we get encouragement from each other... get up the next day and do it all over again. So until you get the fact that we don't care that you don't want to tip.... Please don't eat out. Because if you go to the same restaurant over and over again... you will get the service you pay for. And you will be a target for bad service. We servers talk.... on here and at work. We warn each other about a crappy demanding table. And a stiff? Oh yeah everyone knows who you are... even the kitchen. We also go out to eat. See you in another restaurant? We warn our server there about you. Yep... It's a conspiracy!
I've had the guys in the kitchen tell me... "Table so and so almost up". I'd tell the expo whatever... they don't tip anyways! Then the broil cook would say.. "I thought I recognized that order!" Yeah just go ahead and not tip for our service. We do remember. We are a family and we watch out for each other. There is nothing that you, Lords, some donkey...or anyone else that decides to try to change the way the game works has to say that will change it. We can agree to disagree. But this is life. This is our life. If you don't like it stay home. Learn to cook. Leave a tip. Grow up? |
penelopemarie
New member
Username: penelopemarie
Post Number: 13
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 06:00 am: |
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*stand up clapping and grinning* wow coors i guess that sums it all up... |
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