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pappy97
New member
Username: pappy97
Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 12:45 pm: | 
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Hey everyone, I am a 27 year old American born (no accent) lawyer in California and I tip great. My wife loves IHOP and even when the bill is $20-25, I'll give $8-10.
As long as service is decent -> good, I give 20-25%. If it is really good (or it seems like business is slow and I want to help out), I give 25-35%, 40% sometimes on smaller (under $50) bills.
I have two issues:
1.) I wish there was a way people knew I was a big tipper to begin with. Since I am of Indian (Desi) origin, there is a stereotype (mostly true) that Indians are HORRIBLE tippers. This is because in Asia, and especially India, tipping is not common. My parents, who are from India, always tell me when they go to India how their friends and family don't even like them leaving 5-10 rupee (which is a couple of cents in US dollars) tips on regular meals. Of course my parents leave awesome tips in India (in the hundreds of rupee range) because it is still only a few % points of the bill and you can literally make someones year with that kind of tip.
Has anyone ever thought up a good system so that a waiter/waitress will know that I am a good tipper?
I don't want the color of my skin to make people think I tip bad, when actually I tip great!
2.) Indian restaurants in the US are horrible. Indians give the worst service (And are VERY rude), because of the fact that Indians don't tip. Well when I want to eat Indian restaurant food, I want good service, and I tip good. But the service I get sucks, so the tip stinks, and the cycle continues. How can this be solved?
I suggest that Indian restaurants give awesome service a la top notch American restaurants, and when the cheap Indian patrons (I know I know, it's their culture, but they are in America now and should know better!) stiff them, politely say something to them. Indians hate confrontation and putting them in their place might solve the problem.
I just don't think I should get crummy service because everyone else doesn't tip and they don't know I am a good tipper, provided I get good service.
Thanks for your input and thoughts in advance!! |
jammie
Senior Member
Username: jammie
Post Number: 1156
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 12:58 pm: |
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Good question Pappy, how do you tell someone tactfully. "Hey, I tip well but I tip for good service." Without being offensive. I dont know how I would respond to that myself. No disrespect to you on this subject. I have noticed over the years that the person who boasts about what a great tipper they are. Well thats the kiss of death.
I dont believe so in this situation. Would you feel comfortable saying something like; " I dont subscribe to the tipping standards of our people, but I would like to be waited on properly."I guess maybe in a gentle tone, it would be alright. I know I lunch out a lot with my friend. I am in the biz and she was, we are good tippers. Some servers see two women out to lunch and say why bother. Point is you just never know who you are waiting on do you? |
pappy97
New member
Username: pappy97
Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 01:10 pm: |
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"Would you feel comfortable saying something like; " I dont subscribe to the tipping standards of our people, but I would like to be waited on properly.""
No, because I don't want to assume someone is thinking that race is an issue. Honestly I don't know if that crosses someone's mind when we go out. Perhaps it helps (maybe) that my wife is white.
I don't walk around saying I am good tipper before I meal. Hell, I don't even stick around to see the expression on the face of the waiter/waitress when they see the tip I left.
I wasn't just thinking about Indians, but everyone in general. I bet you know of a website called bitterwaitress or something, right? Waiters/waitresses can post info about bad tip (name, location, bill, tip amt, and details).
Why not a website about good tips??? I'd love to be greenlisted on the Internet as the guy who gives fabulous tips. |
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 665
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 03:31 pm: |
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Actually pappy97, there is no action you can take other than what your doing now. Over the course of time, as you revisit the restaurants you tip well in, the servers will begin to learn who you are.
We have many customers that come in frequently. Some we know by name. Those customers are treated with extra care and it's not only because they tip well, but because they are polite and fun to wait on.
A customer that tips poorly will receive nominal service as they revist.
A customer that tips great, will receive great service in hopes that the last tip was not a fluke.
A rude customer, no matter what the tip will not be liked.
You seem to fall in a nice category as someone who rewards great service. Trust me, they will remember you, especially since you are of Indian descent because your falling out of the norm.
Thanks for tipping. |
nutrimens
New member
Username: nutrimens
Post Number: 18
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 04:37 pm: |
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Vozveratu is right. The best way to free yourself of the poor-tipper stereotype is to establish your reputation to the contrary in the restaurants you frequent. I once knew a gentleman--employed in the restaurant industry--who suffered from a similar problem. He was a black man in D.C., and as such had difficulty receiving good service. During one dining experience, he became so frustrated that he pulled the server aside and assured her he was in the business and promised that if she took care of him, he would take care of her. Apparently this tactic worked. I would not, however, recommend it, for two reasons: one, I'm pretty sure that he only resorted to it once out of frustration, and two, I too frequently suffer discrimination while out (I'm half black) but have always born it in silence. Why? Frankly, telling a server that you will tip well is pretty awkward. Plus, it is at times difficult to assess whether you're receiving bad service because of your skin color/ethnicity, or because of idiosyncratic (server caused) or systemic (restaurant caused) problems. Thus any such negotiation may in fact be futile.
Well, I suppose this is just a convoluted way of giving Voz props. But I'd like to pose this question: *should* a person hailing from a group notorious for tipping poorly (e.g., French, German) explain to his server that he is atypical vis-a-vis tipping? I think no, but I'd like to hear what others have to say. |
jammie
Senior Member
Username: jammie
Post Number: 1157
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 08:19 pm: |
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Got a little story.
A couple of years ago I waited on a black couple, Like I do any table. They were in their late twenties, early thirties. She had on a ton of big gold jewelry, he had a gold grill, hat propped on side ways. You get the picture. We had some fun, told them about the two dollar shot with a beer, Gave them the low down on what is good to order and how to order it to get it in the cheapest fashion.
Now this wasnt even my table, the other server who's turn it was just didnt want them. I said I dont care I'll wait on them. End of story on a $30.00 tab I got a $10 tip, it was all put on a charge card. Do you know what the other server said when I showed her? "What difference does it make to them, its probably a stolen card any way." |
nutrimens
New member
Username: nutrimens
Post Number: 19
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 07:24 am: |
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Hey Jammie--appreciate the story. You are clearly one of the wise servers who realizes that it is foolish to discriminate, and in any case, that providing good service is our job regardless of whatever expectations and prejudices we may (even unconsciously) hold. Unfortunately, servers like you, far from being the rule, are the exception; what is a person who is (at least externally) identified as belonging to a poor-tipping group to do if he fears poor service as a result of the false assumptions of a benighted server? |
ddock123
New member
Username: ddock123
Post Number: 29
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 09:13 am: |
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I agree with everyone. You might can try placing the tip on the table when you sit down. Then they will know your a tipper from the start. I have had people give me tips as I deliver their first drinks. I don't know how you or anyone else feels about this. It's just a thought. |
pappy97
New member
Username: pappy97
Post Number: 3
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 12:49 pm: |
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Thank you for your responses, however the replies only address problem #1. I will get to #2, but first:
"should* a person hailing from a group notorious for tipping poorly (e.g., French, German) explain to his server that he is atypical vis-a-vis tipping? I think no, but I'd like to hear what others have to say."
French and Germans are NOT bad tippers. Remember that in both Germany AND France, an overwhelming majority of restaurants add a mandatory gratuity/service charge to the bill. I suspect that the French/German people who don't like to leave tips would rather it be included in the charge, like over there.
But my situation is different. Being Indian (well American, since I was born and raised here and sound very American/Californian), my parents come from a country/continent where you don't tip, not even automatically on the bill. At least on the west coast everyone understands that the Indians are beyond cheap, and it's doubly frustrating because 1 in 10 millionaires in the U.S. are of Indian origin. They have the money, but are raised to be total cheapskates.
Now, it seems that nobody has discussed #2. Let me refresh your memory:
"2.) Indian restaurants in the US are horrible. Indians give the worst service (And are VERY rude), because of the fact that Indians don't tip. Well when I want to eat Indian restaurant food, I want good service, and I tip good. But the service I get sucks, so the tip stinks, and the cycle continues. How can this be solved?
I suggest that Indian restaurants give awesome service a la top notch American restaurants, and when the cheap Indian patrons (I know I know, it's their culture, but they are in America now and should know better!) stiff them, politely say something to them. Indians hate confrontation and putting them in their place might solve the problem.
I just don't think I should get crummy service because everyone else doesn't tip and they don't know I am a good tipper, provided I get good service."
What do you all think about this? To me, this is the equivalent of talking about black on black crime. Who better knows the cheapness of Indians then Indians themselves? How does this problem get solved? What do you think of my idea of the restaurants being "the better man" and provide great service, and confront the Indians who stiff on tips in these Indian restaurants.
Confrontation does not have to be mean, but simply:
"I noticed you only left x% as a tip. Was there something wrong with your food or service today?"
If you give first class service, there is no valid response to this question besides, "You are right. I am a cheap stingy Indian. I should leave more of a tip for the service I had."
Thoughts? |
jammie
Senior Member
Username: jammie
Post Number: 1160
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 02:59 pm: |
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nutrimens, a little off topic here.
My neighbor asked last night if I had seen the new neighbors. Her eyebrows were raised in horror, you guessed it they are black. I asked what exactly her point was and she said " well they are black." Still not fully understanding (actually, I fully understood) "They cant be too big of losers since they paid well over three hundred thousand dollars for their house. What I think we need to worry about are those who purchased their homes in the seventy to eighty thousand mark. (her)
I mean really! Get over it. I just baked blueberry muffins to bring to them. Think I'll stop by across the street to see if she wants to join me in welcoming our new neighbors. I can be such an ass sometimes. |
jammie
Senior Member
Username: jammie
Post Number: 1161
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 02:59 pm: |
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nutrimens, a little off topic here.
My neighbor asked last night if I had seen the new neighbors. Her eyebrows were raised in horror, you guessed it they are black. I asked what exactly her point was and she said " well they are black." Still not fully understanding (actually, I fully understood) "They cant be too big of losers since they paid well over three hundred thousand dollars for their house. What I think we need to worry about are those who purchased their homes in the seventy to eighty thousand mark. (her)
I mean really! Get over it. I just baked blueberry muffins to bring to them. Think I'll stop by across the street to see if she wants to join me in welcoming our new neighbors. I can be such an ass sometimes. |
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 670
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 01:40 pm: |
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2.) Indian restaurants in the US are horrible. Indians give the worst service (And are VERY rude), because of the fact that Indians don't tip. Well when I want to eat Indian restaurant food, I want good service, and I tip good. But the service I get sucks, so the tip stinks, and the cycle continues. How can this be solved?
Your tip is based on SERVICE not the color of your skin. If the service always sucks, no matter who they waited on, they need to re-examine their service levels.
If you look at the big picture, it's quite simple; Good service yields good tips in most cases. Your always going to get a customer sometime in your life as a server who tips horribly, and those who tip great no matter what service level there is.
The good servers are those who can look past the skin of people and give great service. Those who can't deserve to be tipped poorly and can go on with life thinking that it's the skin tipping and not the service.
Solving, what you consider a problem, is not your problem. If your not happy with the service, bring it to the manager's attention. If he really wants your business, then changes will be made and tips for the service will open the eyes of the staff and hopefully improve the situation. |
pappy97
New member
Username: pappy97
Post Number: 7
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 12:46 pm: |
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"Solving, what you consider a problem, is not your problem. If your not happy with the service, bring it to the manager's attention. If he really wants your business, then changes will be made and tips for the service will open the eyes of the staff and hopefully improve the situation."
I don't think you understand the severity of the problem with respect to Indians and Indians restaurant. To do what you say, I'd have to speak to the manager AT EVERY SINGLE INDIAN RESTAURANT in the country.
I've eaten at hundred's of Indian restaurants, and never had good (let alone excellent) service. I am of Indian decent (born here though) and I am telling you there is not such thing as a great Indian server, because they know Indians do not tip.
My wife came up with an idea: Write a letter to the editor of a major English Language Indo-American Weekly Newsmagazine a lot of Indians get in the mail every week in the US. If they take the time to read such a letter, there eyes might be opened.
Trust me, just talking to every manager of an Indian restaurant in the country will do nothing.
Do not forget: In India, you do not tip. This is ENGRAINED in culture. 1 in 10 American Millionaires are of Indian decent (either born here or not), but we still have the reputation of bad tipping. We need to get this out of the culture when Indians come here. |
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 674
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 01:30 pm: |
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pappy97, do you ever eat at the same restaurant more than once?
If your wanting to solve a national/global problem, then yes, education in the mass media would be your best bet.
The problem is will they read it? Will they take it seriously? Does it pertain to everyone, or just the people you have had contact with?
There are more important things to solve, in my opinion, but this seems to bother you quite a bit. Good luck in your endeavors. |
eeyore_conspiracy
New member
Username: eeyore_conspiracy
Post Number: 11
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 06:08 am: |
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Honestly, pappy97 sounds like an insecure person who tips excessively in an attempt to purchase social approbation and flaunt socioeconomic status. It's almost a cliched symbol of all the worst aspects of the nouveau riche. |
pappy97
New member
Username: pappy97
Post Number: 10
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 05:59 pm: |
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I tip excessively because I appreciate good service and I like to help compensate servers for the good work they do.
Most of the time I don't even see (or care to see the reaction) of servers when they get a big tip from me. I just take satisfaction in knowing I put a smile on someone's face, especially after they put a smile on my face with good service.
eeyore: I simply think you do not understand the Indian problem, WHICH IS THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD. If anything, I overcompensate because of a stereotype that Indians don't tip.
voz: It seems to bother me quite a bit because I am of Indian decent, and am subject to stereotype about bad tipping AND have never seen good service in an Indian restaurant. Both problems need to be solved. Since you are probably not of Indian decent, you probably don't encounter either problem, unless you love Indian food. I don't expect you to understand that, but I think everyone here understands tipping and what it means.
I want to tip well at Indian restaurants too, but
1.) MEMO TO INDIAN PATRONS: Please tip nicely (20%) in America. If you can't afford the bill + 20%, don't eat out.
2.) MEMO TO INDIAN SERVERS: If you want good tips, earn them with excellent service. I just gave an IHOP server a $20 tip on a $21.87 bill. I'd like the day to come when this could happen in an Indian restaurant, but I don't suspect it will be my lifetime. |
tipqueen
Member
Username: tipqueen
Post Number: 127
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 09:31 pm: |
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Honestly, seems like Eeyore is a depressed donkey... maybe need to take some advice from the jolly happy TIGGER!!! |
yodeler
New member
Username: yodeler
Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 02:58 am: |
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The key to getting good service by tipping is to simply let the person know what you want, and then tip them in advance. So if you expect to spend $50, as the wait person takes your order, you slip them $5 and say quietly, “I would like to be taken care of this evening, and I will make sure that you are taken care of.” After the meal, make up the tip to the % that you would like to give, including the original $5. If the bill came to $60, you leave another $10. The wait person got a 25% tip, which is a good tip. If they were inspired by the first $5 and gave great service, leave more. If the service was so-so or not up to standard, leave less or perhaps nothing more. |
jammie
Senior Member
Username: jammie
Post Number: 1193
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 08:55 am: |
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yodler, good idea. Now I'm gonna pick it apart. Unspoken code in the service industry, a customer that says, "I'll take care of ya." Usually doesn't. I dont know why, but it seems to be true. It would seem to me that pappy, being a good tipper should always be taken care of, plus he sounds like a nice person. He really isn't asking too much, and is willing to pay for it too.
This is a funny dilemma, this gentleman wants to tip and tip well. But he wants to be waited on properly, I dont blame him either. I guess us as tipped employees should take heed. You never know what caliber person you will be waiting on. |
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 723
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 09:28 am: |
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I understand the frustraition of the poor service/tipping cycle. But your trying to spear a whale with a pencil. If EVERY Indian server is giving poor service, then why do you think a bad tip will make it worse? It already is!
Do you think by giving a good tip (hence you trying to break the cycle) will improve the service in your next visit? Only you can determine that. You would have to tip good and then return to the same server and see if he/she improves. If not, then your cycle breaking will not work. If so, you've found your solution. |
yodeler
New member
Username: yodeler
Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 09:42 am: |
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jammie,
I can understand the "Murphy's Law" of what you say, however in this case, the wait staff already have something in hand with the promise of more to come for a job well done. They know that there will be more than no tip, because they have it in their hand already.
In India, if one wants something done, it is always best to tip up front and again on completion. They will really bust their behinds for you if they have a few rupies in hand already.
I have used this method and I can tell you that it works 95% of the time. |
jammie
Senior Member
Username: jammie
Post Number: 1197
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 09:38 pm: |
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Get the editor in the Indian paper to write an editorial on the subject. To educate servers as well as diners. If pappy sent a e mail to the paper, making a suggestion, well who knows? It would e beneficial and informational to everyone concerned.
Did someone already mention that earlier on in the postings? |
jammie
Senior Member
Username: jammie
Post Number: 1198
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 09:45 pm: |
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Yep, I just scrolled through the idea was not an original. I get confused in my fantasy world. |
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