| Author |
Message |
    
oso0690
New member
Username: oso0690
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 12:52 am: | 
|
I want some opinions to this scenario:
You go out somewhere to have a good time and the service is great. It comes time to pay... say $16 total. You give them a $20 dollar bill and they say have a great day.
Would you ask where did the extra $4 go and not tip? Just shrug it off? something else?
Something similar happened to me and I'm wondering if it's normal to think that it's rude to expect a tip. |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 468
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 08:59 am: |
|
Next ask for your change back. You decide if you want to tip or not, not the server. |
kelly
Member
Username: kelly
Post Number: 158
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 01:17 pm: |
|
It would depend upon the circumstances. The server does not have the right to keep your change - to do so is theft, the same as if they had taken $4.00 out of your wallet without your permission. I would not put up with someone stealing from me.
However, it could also very easily be a simple miscommunication. Did you say "thank you - we had a great time" or something similar when handing them the money? Anything that could have been mis-interpreted as "keep the change"?
If so - and the amount that the server kept was about what I would have tipped anyway - I would just let it go in order to save both of us any discomfort.
If either I didn't think I had done anything that could have interpreted that way or the money was more than I would have otherwise tipped, I would ask for my change. Then, based upon the server's reaction, decide what to do next. If it was a simple mis-understanding, the server would probably apologize and/or explain the mis-understanding. It could be as simple as he forget to hand me the change. We would both shrug or laugh, I would tip as usual and life would go on.
If the server's reaction to my asking for my change led me to believe that I hadn't done anything to indicate I didn't want my change back and he/she had purposefully stolen my money, I would not tip at all (sorry - I don't tip people who steal from me) and ask for a manager. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2329
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 07, 2008 - 02:11 pm: |
|
I simply say either:
"What kind of change do you need"?
or, more directly
"Do you need change back"?
As a server, you just can't take it for granted that "Have a nice day" means "Keep the change" although that's what it usually means. It's just another one of those nuances that you learn to finesse as a server. Trying to be a mindreader is something that gets servers in trouble. If you don't know for sure, you have to ask.
I had almost this same scenario on Wed. night. The guest put money in the check presenter and said "Thank you" and sort of waved over the presenter. Even though it was pretty obvious what his intention was, I asked anyway. He said, "It's all for you". I thanked him and we both went on our way. |
neecey93
Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 122
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 08, 2008 - 03:00 pm: |
|
Would you ask where did the extra $4 go and not tip? Just shrug it off? something else?
I'll bet most people would be uncomfortable in this situation.. why? because of the etiquette involved. It's weird but customers are usually timid in these sort of situations which makes it annoying when a server PUTS you there. It's also distasteful when you find that a server does it on purpose counting on your discomfort and therefore being able to keep the change. They're out there is all I'm saying. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2334
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 08, 2008 - 03:27 pm: |
|
"I'll bet most people would be uncomfortable in this situation.. why? because of the etiquette involved. It's weird but customers are usually timid in these sort of situations which makes it annoying when a server PUTS you there. It's also distasteful when you find that a server does it on purpose counting on your discomfort and therefore being able to keep the change. They're out there is all I'm saying".
A server should never assume that they are getting the change.
If I were the guest, I'd say, "You know that I DO need my change, right?". And I'd probably dock them for assuming.
I would have made this point more clearly the first time, but I misread the OP. I thought that the guest presented the $20 and said "Have a nice day", not the server.
The server must always ask what the intention of the guest is. Always.
(Message edited by teleburst on December 08, 2008) |
maggieclaich
New member
Username: maggieclaich
Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 08, 2008 - 09:26 pm: |
|
I learned early on to say "I will be right back with your change". Although i feel pretty silly when I open the book & it's a credit card. |
epitome22
New member
Username: epitome22
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2008 - 05:17 am: |
|
This rarely happens when I work. I always grab the bill and tell them I'll be right back. If whatever is left is intended for me the guest usually lets you know. |
vcgold
New member
Username: vcgold
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 01:23 am: |
|
i like it buy wow gold<br> yes i miss you cheap wow gold<br> hello~, i want to make friend with you >wow gold<br> |
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 990
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:13 pm: |
|
An ad to buy World of Warcraft gold? |
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 140
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 02:46 pm: |
|
I probably wouldn't say anything about $4. They should have given you your change. The only time I keep the change is when the customer hands me the money and tells me to keep the change.
Get tired of posting here, shop instead!!!
http://bcsmall.com
|
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 141
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 02:49 pm: |
|
I missed the last question. No it isn't rude to expect a tip, but it is rude to just take one.
Get tired of posting here, shop instead!!!
http://bcsmall.com
|
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 494
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 05:49 pm: |
|
realdeal said - "They should have given you your change". Who are you too decide what someone else should or should not do? |
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 994
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 12:44 pm: |
|
Story
Server where I worked gave change back to the customer and was short by .06 cents. Customer complained to the manager.
Wow! |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 498
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 08:43 pm: |
|
So some servers where you work can't count? |
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 143
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 10:40 pm: |
|
paid_up you make no sense at all. Of course you never do. Yes when anyone pays for their food, or whatever they are meant to be given their change.
So by what you are saying if you went out to eat and your bill was $20 and you paid with a $50, it would be ok, if your server just kept the other $30 as who would you be to tell them what to do?
Yes paid_up people do make mistakes when giving change, and 6 cents isn't a huge one. It is easy to do when things are very busy. I would be ok with a customer complaining about this as my manager would hand them the money, and think they were a complete ass, and we would all have a good laugh about it.
paid_up I am sorry to tell you but Santa has been at the Waffle House the past two weekends and he told me to pass along to you, that this year you will find two lumps of coal in your stocking and nothing else as you have been very naughty this year. Sorry dude, not my call. I would have given you three.
Get tired of posting here, shop instead!!!
http://bcsmall.com
|
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 997
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 09:45 am: |
|
Hehe, thanks Realdeal, but it's no biggie. Paid-up trying to push my buttons. Too bad for him, it doesn't work.
Mistake of the server? No actually. She did the incorrect thing of rounding to restaurant favor instead of rounding to customer favor. I do the latter.
Example, bill is 123.64 and gives me 130.00 cash. Instead of carrying a bunch of change, I give the customer 7.00. It's 36 cents, I can still pay my mortgage.
What she did was instead of taking a 94 hit, she assumed the customer wouldn't care about .06. Boy, was she ever wrong. I find it shocking that someone would pitch a fit to management about .06 when it could cost the server her job on something she didn't think was a big deal.
As a customer, if I wanted my .06, I would just ask the server for the rest of my change.
See paid-up, these are the types of losers we sometimes have to wait on who would pitch a fit over something so trivial. I'm looking forward to your response on how the customer has a right, blah blah blah. But 6 cents? Get real. |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 505
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 12:05 pm: |
|
6 cents is 6 cents. The customers 6 cents. Argue that point vicky. |
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1000
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 12:33 pm: |
|
6 cents is 6 cents. The customers 6 cents. Argue that point vicky.
As I suspected. |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 506
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 04:49 pm: |
|
Did you discover that clue with your nose or your superior mental ability? |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1007
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 10:33 am: |
|
Did you discover that clue with your nose or your superior mental ability?
Nose, since your crap stinks enough to be noticed across the globe....:p |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 511
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 03:42 pm: |
|
I'll work on that. |
regularguy
Member
Username: regularguy
Post Number: 143
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2008 - 04:30 pm: |
|
"Mistake of the server? No actually. She did the incorrect thing of rounding to restaurant favor instead of rounding to customer favor. I do the latter."
I'm not sure with 6 cents but honestly if its much more and I think the server shorted me on purpose, it would piss me off as a customer on principle. I would just adjust the tip to make up if possible rather than a manager.
One time I had gone to a breakfast brunch where the server did basically nothing. The bill was like $8.20 or so. When my change came back she kept $9.
I mentioned it to her and she said that they don't do change. WTF??? If you serve food and add tax you damn well better do change. The only excuse not to have change (at least quarters) is a bar where all drinks/food include tax and are even dollars. The only other option is to round in the customers favor. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1012
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 02:45 pm: |
|
The only other option is to round in the customers favor.
Agreed. I've yet to have one customer complain that I 'gave' them the change. Funny how that works. I give the change to the customer, no complaints or comments. In my example server girl doesn't give the change (.06) one time, BAM! Complaint. Sad. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2366
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 03:32 pm: |
|
I always round in the customer's favor. I used to give exact change until I realized that I myself was being cheap by worrying about pennies. If the bill is $30.20, I will give them change rounded up to the next nickel though. I'm not willing to give up almost a buck just to round up to the next dollar. That's why I usually carry enough change in my pocket to make change when needed.
I always round UP though. It's not worth it to me to cause conflict over a few pennies. I'll give away a few pennies every time if necessary without worrying because I'm not THAT cheap.
A server should *always* round up at least to the next nickel just to be on the safe side, as this story indicates. Plus, you have to be careful about leaving an unintentional (or intentional for that matter) message that the guest is cheap by including pennies in the change. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1013
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 04:23 pm: |
|
Have you ever walked away with cash, seeing the tip to be only 5% or less and bring back the change, even when the customer said keep it?
I've seen it happen. What a hoot. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2368
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 05:59 pm: |
|
I ALWAYS do that for 12% tips and below. I usually even open up the book to put the tip in plain sight. This is especially satisfying when seperate checks are involved and others have tipped more appropriately. It might not be noticed, but I can only hope that it is.
What's funny is when someone says, "No, like I said, that was for you". I nod my head and leave it on the table.
Passive-aggressive? Maybe. But I don't really have much of a choice short of risking losing my job by saying something like, "Here, you keep it. You obviously need it more than I do", or "Was there anything wrong with the service, sir"?
We've all heard the apochryphal stories of servers throwing change back in the face of guests saying the former. I'm not sure if anyone has ever seen this in person though. It's always "I heard this from someone I worked with" or "My brother knew someone who was a server..." |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 516
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 19, 2008 - 08:08 pm: |
|
No balls no glory. If you left a tip of 10% on the table, I would figure you didn't need it, I would take it back. You must of thought I needed it more. Thank You |
maggieclaich
New member
Username: maggieclaich
Post Number: 17
Registered: 10-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 08:17 pm: |
|
Yep. You would. |
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 150
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2008 - 01:58 pm: |
|
"Something similar happened to me and I'm wondering if it's normal to think that it's rude to expect a tip."
I read this wrong. No it is not normal to think it is rude to expect a tip. There is nothing rude about working for someone and then expecting them to pay(tip) for that work or service.
Get tired of posting here, shop instead!!!
http://bcsmall.com
|
gbowen99
Intermediate Member
Username: gbowen99
Post Number: 404
Registered: 06-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 02:39 pm: |
|
Demand your money back and leave no tip. |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 922
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 09:17 pm: |
|
vozveratu
"I find it shocking that someone would pitch a fit to management about .06 when it could cost the server her job on something she didn't think was a big deal."
WHY? Do you see the SERVER "CARE" one bit about the customer's money? I would hope a thief would get fired personally. I wished that ahole that didn't return my 31 cents in 2004 would have gotten fired for it. I reported his ass. It was the situation that we had given (2) $20 gift certificates(the bill was $34.69), which he conveniently decided not to return the original bill to us, only laying a $5 bill on the change dish. He left immediately of course. He owed us 31 cents.
Do you understand it wasn't about the "CENTS" and that it's about the PRINCIPLE of it that he STOLE it AHEAD of time without OUR PERMISSION to take it? I don't care if the server owes me ONE PENNY, if you don't give it back, AUTOMATIC STIFF!! YOU STEAL, I STEAL!!! I will treat you the EXACT WAY you treated me. You take your "ASSUMPTION" tip ahead of time, you get the lazy ass tip you deserve since you didn't bother to go to the bar or the manager to get coins nor did you keep some change in your pocket, even if it's just a couple of dollars worth in quarters even.
I find it "SHOCKING" you are DEFENDING a thief. I find it "SHOCKING" you think we should give a rat's ass about someone that we don't know if they get fired or not as if they actually care if we do, you know?
"these are the types of losers we sometimes have to wait on who would pitch a fit over something so trivial."
I find it "SHOCKING" that you would think the server would think it would be "trivial", because it's a "TRIVIAL" amount, but if you added all your dollars up with 6 cents at a time, it sure would add up. How would you like your paid check, let's say you get one each week, to short your paid check 6 cents? That's $3.12 for the entire year.
Also, I find it "SHOCKING" that you feel customers are "LOSERS", because **THEY** want to make the CHOICE of "HOW MUCH" to tip.
Don't you get it's all about that the CUSTOMER wants to decide "HOW MUCH" and "WHEN" to give the tip and that the server has NO RIGHTS to decide EITHER ONE? It's not about the money honestly, because we leave tips. It's about that WE want to be the ones to decide how much and when to give the tip and we also don't want someone to STEAL IT ahead of time as if it's THEIR MONEY, because it's not, it's "OURS" STILL at that point unless we either leave or say so.
WHY do you feel we are "LOSERS", because we'd want to report a "THIEF" to the manager? I told the lady manager about the situation. I wanted to let him know WHY he didn't get a tip and also to report him STEALING so he could get in trouble. I want the servers that steal to get PUNISHED in some way, even if it's just through the manager telling them about the situation to not do it again.
Thankfully, we hardly ever pay with cash or gift certificates to encounter that problem.
"how the customer has a right, blah blah blah. But 6 cents? Get real."
You don't get it? It's not truly about the 6 cents, even though I mentioned it adds up, I only mentioned that just to make a point that money is money, no matter if it's just a penny that you don't want your paid checks in one year to be short a little of $3, do you? What I am trying to say is, if you want your customers to care about YOUR MONEY, you need to CARE ABOUT THEIRS, EVERY CENT OF IT. Otherwise, don't expect one cent from a customer if you do something morally wrong like steal the part of the tip ahead of time. It's morally wrong to take something without asking or the customer telling you it's ok to take it.
It's honestly truly about that you took something that wasn't yours to keep. When you go to Wal-Mart of McDonald's, don't you get EXACT CHANGE TO THE PENNY? WHY, because the worker(server) happens to make tips, that gives them a RIGHT to actually not return the TOTAL amount of change? The worker making tips has NO RIGHTS to the customer's change without their permission. I don't get why you think it's "MORALLY RIGHT" to take someone's money without asking first or them telling you? I don't get it why you think you should "ASSUME" you are getting paid when it's not required by law? You should EARN your pay by if you have to go to the bar or to the manager or bring some coins on you, to not be SO LAZY ASS by just doing one of those things. The waiter was just too lazy to go to the bar to get coins. That's not the customer's problem that the SERVER is a thief and lazy.
I find it shocking that someone thinks it's OK to steal. WHY is that? I understand you may think it's for nothing, but honestly, it's not. When you see that people can complain about this, you see even if they leave every cent you gave them, YOU EARNED your tip by getting the change. That IS PART OF MY SERVER'S JOB IS TO GET THE CHANGE OR BRING BACK MY CREDIT CARD & RECEIPT. You obviously want to do a half-fast job. What kind of tip do you expect by doing that and should you expect RESPECT back if you didn't GIVE RESPECT to the CUSTOMER'S CHANGE? You wouldn't care if you shorted the customer, because it's not your money, so what do you expect your customer to do to an uncaring server, huh? |
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 158
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 10:03 pm: |
|
Good grief lords_of_acid, your whole post could have been wrote like this.
Doesn't anyone understand it is the principal of the thing, not the small sum of money. When servers don't give back the exact change it is the same as them stealing, and they should be fired.
I almost always give back the exact change. The only time I don't is if the change part of the bill is 10 cents or less. Say their bill was $34.10 and they gave me $40. Their change would be $15.90. Most people don't want a bunch of change, so I would give them an even $16.
If I was out as a customer, and another customer was having a fit over 6 cents, I would probably laugh at them and hand them a dollar.
Have you always been this much of a drama queen or did you have to go to school?
Get tired of posting here, shop instead!!!
http://bcsmall.com
|
ohioborn
Junior Member
Username: ohioborn
Post Number: 81
Registered: 07-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 11:00 pm: |
|
"Doesn't anyone understand it is the principal of the thing, not the small sum of money. When servers don't give back the exact change it is the same as them stealing, and they should be fired."
Actually, it's PRINCIPLE, not PRINCIPAL, realdeal. |
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 160
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 01, 2009 - 11:27 pm: |
|
In any case ohioborn, if someone gave me 6 cents less than they were meant to I doubt I would even notice it. If I did I wouldn't care. I doubt seriously anyone is trying to steal your 6 cents. This is a great example of taking something too far. Really if you notice the 6 cents you have issues that did to be dealt with elsewhere.
Get tired of posting here, shop instead!!!
http://bcsmall.com
|
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2405
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2009 - 05:21 am: |
|
While i totally agree that it's extremely petty to worry about pennies, a server should always round up if they are going to take shortcuts with the change. It's just as petty for a server to worry about pennies as it is a guest. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1034
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2009 - 11:40 am: |
|
Lords! Good to have you back, Happy New Year!
As your post is exactly the way the customer was reacting (like a loser), I don't argue the fact that the customer was shorted money. To this fact, he has the right to bring it up as being short-changed or whatever.
What I don't agree is the thief part. You don't know the girl who did this and she was actually surprised and upset that she caused this issue with the customer. You like to preach about whether it's 6 cents or 6 hundred dollars, there is a difference of concern between the two.
If your bank account was missing 6 cents, you of course will question the bank on where it went, but missing 6 hundred would have you sending through the roof. And don't tell me otherwise, because it'll make you seem like an idiot.
Stealing 6 cents is a waste of time and energy. You define the stealing of 6 cents as being a thief, I define it as being a mistake. A small one, for that matter, but a mistake never the less.
Manager took care of it, she kept her job and learned a valuable lesson of underestimating the idiocies of customers and life went on.
No one was stealing and the customer is probably housed up in some asylum with all his cash in his mattress. Hope it's doing well for him. |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 536
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2009 - 07:25 pm: |
|
Should she have been hired to begin with? |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 923
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2009 - 11:03 pm: |
|
realdeal
"If I was out as a customer, and another customer was having a fit over 6 cents, I would probably laugh at them and hand them a dollar. Have you always been this much of a drama queen or did you have to go to school?"
Just look at what you wrote here:
http://www.tipping.org/discus4/messages/9/4138.html
"If you aren't going to tip, why would I give you good service? You are going to rip me off, even if I serve you, and your big threat is you won't come back? I wouldn't want you to come back. You might rip me off once by not paying for your service, but it won't happen twice. I will remember you and when you come back a second time, I will act like I don't see you."
Well, you seem like the type "AN EYE FOR AN EYE" type here, right? So, WHY isn't it OK for the CUSTOMER to be that way towards their server, huh? You don't want to serve customers that will not pay you(which I 100% COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND), but then think it's OK to laugh at someone shorting them (((***THEIR**))) CHANGE, NOT YOURS. I don't get you, I really don't?
It looks like to me, YOU NEED TO LOOK IN THE (((MIRROR))) YOURSELF that YOU are the "DRAMA QUEEN."
You said this:
http://www.tipping.org/discus4/messages/9/4265.html
"Yes I feel that at Waffle House we do a lot more work than at a Outback or a Chili's. We have to do all of the normal server work, plus bus the tables, wash the dishes, prep a lot of the food, cook a good deal of food, and clean the store too."
You want us to consider "Washing dishes" which is NOT ONE SECOND PART OF SOMEONE'S SERVICE, "Bussing Tables" which is NOT ONE SECOND PART OF CUSTOMER'S SERVICE, and "CLEAN THE STORE" is MOST DEFINITELY HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH ACTUAL "SERVICE" that customers tip on, YET, you want to LAUGH at customers that want (((((((((((((((THEIR))))))))))))))) MONEY, well look at how you expect money for NO SERVICE? As if YOU have the NERVE!!
Do you go into a restaurant and tip based on what happens when you aren't THERE even? If you do, you are the ONLY PATHETIC PERSON that does, because NO ONE in their right mind TIPS on NO SERVICE. We tip for what we RECEIVE WHILE we are there, so if you cleaned the dish I am eating off of BEFORE I came, WHO CARES, I wasn't there to RECEIVE that service, was I? Even if you did it while I waited for my food, that's NOT what customers tip for, so don't expect them to. The customer doesn't care WHO cleaned it, just that they have a clean plate to eat on. They assume it's the kitchen staff anyways. I didn't know until a few years ago that some restaurants have servers make desserts and some such as Red Lobster, make the servers make side salads. I assumed the kitchen staff did that, so WHY would the customer think YOU cleaned the plate, huh? That's absurd that they would think that YOU did. They tip for you bringing them what they ask for and cleaning up WHILE they have plates on their table, NOT other tables that you buss that have NOTHING to do with THEIR TABLE or bussing the table I am at now BEFORE I even sat down. That's ludicrous. If they see you cook their food, that's a different story since Waffle House you can see someone cooking. I can see tipping on if you cook my food, but not cleaning my plate. That plate in my opinion, is something that should be taken care of BEFORE I get to be seated. If you don't have clean plates, don't seat me, make me wait to get seated then, because you aren't ready for me.
My point is, you have NO RIGHT to "LAUGH" at someone not getting their COMPLETE amount of change and calling me a "DRAMA QUEEN", when you PROVED YOURSELF, YOU ARE ONE YOURSELF!! Look in the MIRROR NEXT TIME BEFORE TELLING PEOPLE THINGS!!
I don't get your attitude you say this: "When servers don't give back the exact change it is the same as them stealing, and they should be fired. " Then you say this: "If I was out as a customer, and another customer was having a fit over 6 cents, I would probably laugh at them and hand them a dollar. Have you always been this much of a drama queen or did you have to go to school?"
You make NO SENSE in your attitude that you want them fired if they steal, but then LAUGH at them for wanting their little bit of coins. Don't you get it's not the coins, it's the fact that the server thinks you OWE THEM a tip, well sorry, but you EARN IT, NOT OWE IT!! I don't care if you served me bunches of stuff, if you did a piss poor job, don't expect a tip.
"If I did I wouldn't care. I doubt seriously anyone is trying to steal your 6 cents. This is a great example of taking something too far. Really if you notice the 6 cents you have issues that did to be dealt with elsewhere."
That's YOU who wouldn't care, but I DO. Don't you get it's not about the "CENTS", it's about the mentality that "WE OWE YOU at least 15%" NO MATTER WHAT THE HELL YOU DO? We don't owe you a penny even if you suck. You have to *********EARN*********** your tip. You don't just get a tip for bringing me the wrong food with no apology even, that's just not how it works. You have to get the order correct as much as you can possible SEE. I can tell just by looking at bacon for instance if it's crispy or not. I don’t care if you didn't cook it if you can TELL by your EYES it's WRONG, then that mistake is YOURS if you BRING it to me wrong(if you took the order as well).
I don't like the mentality that they take the money beforehand GUESSING that they will have the coins and they are SO DAMN LAZY to go get the coins. Especially asking "Do you want change?" It's unbelievable at times we have been asked that when we paid with a credit card when they obviously didn't see the card. You aren't going to save time with me, because if I ever pay with cash or gift certificates again, even if I want every penny as the server's tip, I will make sure I get my exact money or over if the server decides that than to tip a thief. |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 924
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 02, 2009 - 11:22 pm: |
|
vozveratu
"What I don't agree is the thief part. You don't know the girl who did this and she was actually surprised and upset that she caused this issue with the customer. You like to preach about whether it's 6 cents or 6 hundred dollars, there is a difference of concern between the two."
Honestly, I really don't care about the 6 cents that I'd leave on the table anyways in the tip. It's really the fact that "WE OWE YOU" FOR SURE "ASSUMPTION" "TAKE IT BEFOREHAND" "LAZINESS" mentality. It pisses me off more than anything about this type of situation that the server thinks "IT'S MINE" (((((BEFORE))))))) it actually is and "JUST TAKES IT WITHOUT ASKING OR BE TOLD IT'S OK." I don't like that they feel "YOU OWE ME A TIP FOR SERVING ME." A tip is EARNED, so that means not to be so lazy and just go get the coins if the customer doesn't say they don't want their change or to keep it.
It's truly more that I want my change back and let ME decide. That's the way it's SUPPOSED to work(unless automatic gratuity is added of course).
It is "THEFT", because it's NOT the "SERVER'S MONEY" YET, which is the key word. I don't care if it's a PENNY that's owed, the fact is, that's NOT the SERVER'S MONEY to DECIDE to take ahead of time. So WHY would she be "SURPRISED" if she KNOWS it's "NOT HERS?" WHY would she think it's ok to keep someone's money that isn't hers and WHY at McDonald's or at a grocery store, you get EXACT(TO THE PENNY) change without hesitation, but an employee that makes tips thinks they have a RIGHT to "SOMEONE ELSE'S MONEY?" A thief is a person that takes something that isn't theirs, well a customer's coin change, even a penny, is NOT THEIR SERVER'S MONEY until the customer either says so or leaves.
So shouldn't it be (((COMMON SENSE)))) YOU NEVER TOUCH OR TAKE SOMETHING THAT'S NOT (((YOURS)))? I know you have to TOUCH the change, but taking it is a whole different thing. Come on now, you can't see where I am coming from? This isn't rocket science. If it's NOT "YOUR" money, DON'T TAKE, plain and simple!!!
Would you dig in someone's purse or wallet that wasn't yours without permission? WHY someone's change is ANY DIFFERENT?
"No one was stealing"
THEY ARE when they take something that ISN'T **********THEIRS************* to TAKE. Do you have common sense or what?
"Manager took care of it, she kept her job and learned a valuable lesson of underestimating the idiocies of customers and life went on."
This server was DUMB as a ROCK. You shouldn't have to "LEARN A VALUABLE LESSON" ON KNOWING "TAKING SOMETHING THAT ISN'T YOURS" IS. You learn that when you are a KID, probably like 3yrs old or so. You don't touch someone's bike or car that isn't yours, right? The "VALUE" is IRRELEVANT, don't you get that? Touching someone's $0.60 coke and taking a sip if you are STRANGER is WRONG, right? Well, I don't get why you think it's OK to take some for yourself if it's NOT YOURS? Tell me WHY you think this waitress had no common sense or why the waiter that did that us with the 31 cents had no common sense? It was because of LAZINESS and "WE OWE YOU" attitude. If it wasn't laziness, some servers wouldn't ask "Do you need change." If they wanted to do more work, they wouldn't care if they made an extra trip for nothing, now would they?
"To this fact, he has the right to bring it up as being short-changed or whatever."
If that's so, WHY have the attitude that it's not "STEALING" when it's "INTENTIONAL" not to get the coins? If it was by mistake that's one thing, such as thought the server had 6 cents, but only returned 5 cents, then that might be a mistake, but not to return ANY coins shows me they are lazy and are a thief. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2413
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 09:07 am: |
|
The fact that you get so freaked out about .06 is pretty laughable, even if the principle is on your side.
I don't get very freaked out about all the TIME you have cost me. And that's worth far more than .06. |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 538
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 03, 2009 - 10:23 am: |
|
You expect to be paid for doing this. LOL |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1045
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2009 - 03:04 pm: |
|
If that's so, WHY have the attitude that it's not "STEALING" when it's "INTENTIONAL" not to get the coins? If it was by mistake that's one thing, such as thought the server had 6 cents, but only returned 5 cents, then that might be a mistake, but not to return ANY coins shows me they are lazy and are a thief.
It was her mistake to assume that the customer would not care about 6 cents. She would be taking up the customer's time to make change with the manager in the back office, when the customer was ready to leave.
Just as you have preached about taking up your time, blah blah blah, this customer also did not want to wait around. Since she was being rushed, she didn't give it a thought on shortchanging the customer as being an issue.
She was wrong, the customer was a jerk. 6 cents is not worth the headache and if she could travel back in time, she would have gotten his big mortgage payment in 6 pennies and taken his time up. If he had complained about that, she could respond, "Well sir, I had to find 6 pennies for your change."
Could she have had a bank to begin with? Sure, but we didn't work for Chili's or places that serve Tartar sauce as a side dish. We worked in an upscale restaurant, so most people paid with a card.
Did she learn a lesson? Yes, we all make mistakes, oh wait... Not you, forgot your perfection radiates a bright glow among the board members. I bow to your wisdom and knowledge of things that are right and wrong.
Paid-up:
You expect to be paid for doing this. LOL
We get paid for doing this. LOL
Both of you make a nice couple. Just a thought. |
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 167
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2009 - 09:38 am: |
|
lords of acid: It has nothing to do with an eye for an eye, it has to do with I will not work for free.
Yes washing your dishes is part of the service. If you were eating at home, you would wash your own dish. If you eat where I work, I wash them. As a result I am washing YOUR dirty dish and have provided your lazy butt with a service. Same with cleaning the store. I also many times do cook their food when the manager/cook is doing paper work. btw In restaurants that do have dish washers, bus boys, etc. you are paying for that service through higher menu prices than you would at Waffle House. That is one reason our prices are lower than a lot of other places.
Exactly how do I wash your dirty plate before you make it dirty. I don't expect anyone to pay me for cleaning the dirty plate of the person before them, I expect you to pay me for washing the plates and whatever your lazy butt just made dirty. Again, go to a restaurant with a busboy and a dish washer,and to be sure you are paying for your table to be cleaned, your dishes washed, and the place cleaned.
However I eat out too, and as a customer when someone hands me change, I never count the coins, so as a result I wouldn't notice if a few cents were missing, and even if I did, I wouldn't care or say anything about it.
When I tip I tip based on all of the work that the person is doing for me, from start to finish. If I know that person is doing all of the cleaning of the mess I have made, of course I tip more. It isn't just me, as a lot of my customers have told me they tip more because we do more for them. I also tip more when I eat out, to make up for the sorry tips losers like you leave behind. To be sure that when I am out as a customer, I have a very big mouth and have no problem making other customers mad. I have many times handed a server a $40 tip and told them, this is to help make up for the sorry tips the other cheap customers have left you. I do this when I see two and three dollar tips on other tables. I HATE CHEAP LAZY PEOPLE THAR FEEL THEY ARE MEANT TO GET GREAT SERVICE AND PAY NEXT TO NOTHING FOR IT!!! I have only worked for tips for about 4 years, and I have always felt that way. If you are too lazy to stay home to cook and clean up after yourself, and go out to eat, pay the person that is serving your lazy butt, lords of stupid.
Get tired of posting here, shop instead!!!
http://bcsmall.com
|
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 168
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2009 - 09:44 am: |
|
teleburst I don't worry about a few cents when giving a customer their change. I always round it off in their favor. If their bill was $48.10 and they gave me $50 to pay their bill, I would hand them back $2, instead of $1.90. That's what I do with the coin change that is left on the table.
Get tired of posting here, shop instead!!!
http://bcsmall.com
|
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 169
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2009 - 10:12 am: |
|
btw Lords of Acid when you are at Waffle House,we remove the plates as they become empty as a result you can also see us washing your dishes while you are there. Again how can I clean up your dirty dishes before you make them dirty?
Just for fun, I will now make a true Lords of Acid type post.
What you don't think you should tip on all of the work the server does? From what planet do you come from where only part of the service gets tipped on. Here on Earth where people walk on two legs and also have just one head, but also two arms the normal non cheap human understands that when they go out to eat, that they are not only being served food by other humans who also walk on two feet, but only have one mouth to talk from are doing other work for them such as cleaning up the mess their lazy butt left behind. They can also see with the two eyes they have on their one head that you are making a huge mess, demanding way to many drink refills, most likely a percent of your meal, and a box to take the "dog" some leftovers in, all the time knowing that you will be eating them yourself, because you are way too cheap to even throw out that really nasty looking burnt piece of mushroom. Yes the mushroom that grew on the mushroom farm that was harvested by a human from earth that has only one head, but strangely enough two eyes on that head and two legs and arms. Isn't it odd that we have only one of some body parts but two of others? Yes it is, as if we had two heads we could eat twice as fast, and good do other things twice as well too.
Yes you as a customer make a mess, you make your plates dirty, you make your cups dirty, your make your glasses dirty, you make your fork dirty, you make your knife dirty, your make your spoon dirty, perhaps even multiple pieces of silverware dirty, you make the table dirty, you make the floor dirty. Your little crumb snatchers leave crumbs on the floor.
If you go somewhere and get your car worked on, do you just pay for the service of having just one part worked on or do you pay for the service of having it all paid for, just like you should pay on all of the service you get when you eat out. Including but not limited to bussing your table, and washing your plates, cups, glasses, forks, spoons, knives, oh I forgot ice tea spoons, dessert spoons, salad forks, sea food forks.
Then with your one mouth that is located on your one head, but is higher than your two arms and your two legs that are attached to your one body, you are going to whine about a few pennies that would not be enough to even buy one pack of gum that would hopefully keep that one mouth that is on that one head busy for a few seconds to give the world of normal humans a break from your mouth.
Goodness I almost forgot to mention that humans on earth also have five toes attached to each foot for a total of ten toes, and that on each of their two hands there are 4 fingers and a thumb on each for total of 8 finger and two thumbs. This also gives the server two finger to give sign language to let cheap lazy customers see with their two eyes in their one head what they think of your cheap lazy butt.
OMG I JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY YOUR ONE BRAIN THAT IS IN YOUR ONE HEAD CAN NOT UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE MEAN TO PAY FOR ALL THE SERVICE YOU GET FROM YOUR SERVER WITH THAT HAND THAT IS ATTACHED TO YOUR ONE BODY, AND THAT A FEW CENTS IS NOT THAT IMPORTANT. NOW I AM ROLLING ABOUT ON THE FLOOR AND FOAMING AT THE MOUTH JUST LIKE LORDS OF STUPID.
Get tired of posting here, shop instead!!!
http://bcsmall.com
|
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 170
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 09, 2009 - 10:17 am: |
|
I meant to say you are meant to pay for and to go on in the true lords fashion. YOU did know what I was trying to see, reading the words with your two eyes on your one head, and processed by your one brain. The brain that saw it for the typo it is. AGAIN JUST LIKE LORDS OF STUPID I AM ROLLING ABOUT ON THE FLOOR AND FOAMING AT THE MOUTH. YOU KNOW THAT HUGE BLACK HOLE ON HER ONE FACE THAT IS ON THAT THING, I THINK SHE CALLS A FACE. LMFAO
Get tired of posting here, shop instead!!!
http://bcsmall.com
|
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 556
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 09:37 am: |
|
Gheez another novel. |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 925
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 11:24 pm: |
|
vozveratu
"It was her mistake to assume that the customer would not care about 6 cents. She would be taking up the customer's time to make change with the manager in the back office, when the customer was ready to leave."
If a customer is in a rush to leave, they will TELL their server they don't want the coins, otherwise, WHY would ANYONE ASSUME such a thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPi1MHEeNtY
This guy in this video states if he wants to let his server have his change, he will say so, otherwise, it's not "YOURS" to take until the customer says so or leaves the restaurant.
I'd rather ANYDAY for my server to take time to do their job ****CORRECTLY****, than to STEAL from me. If I am in a real big hurry, I can ask for my check when I order my entree or dessert and mention that if they could get me the check quickly, so then if I would pay with not exact cash, I would be able to get change in a much more timely manner, possibly even before the dessert and definitely before an entree time. If people are that much in a rush, they need to plan on requesting the check sooner than what they do.
"Just as you have preached about taking up your time, blah blah blah, this customer also did not want to wait around. Since she was being rushed, she didn't give it a thought on shortchanging the customer as being an issue."
The server can always carry SOME coins on them, at least $2 worth.
"She was wrong, the customer was a jerk."
The customer wasn't a "JERK", because they had EVERY RIGHT to complain since they had a THIEF for their server. If she was "WRONG", then WHY would you call that customer the jerk? Shouldn't it be the other way around? HOW can you call someone a "JERK" that took something that wasn't "THEIRS" without their permission to do so, huh? It's YOU that's the JERK!!!
It's not just morally wrong to take something that isn't yours without the person's permission, but it's also LAWFULLY wrong as well.
"6 cents is not worth the headache"
That's YOUR OPINION! My opinion is, 6 cents is worth waiting for and so are SOME customers that DO truly feel that way. Honestly, the 6 cents is going to be left on the table. The fact is, I want to see if you are going to STEAL it or give it back as you MORALLY and LAWFULLY SHOULD BEFORE I tip you ONE PENNY. If you steal, even if I was going to give you 25% plus, you get ZERO. I don't care WHAT kind of service you gave me if you take OUR MONEY that you had NO RIGHT to take AHEAD OF TIME. It shouldn't matter if you get tipped or not that you take the money beforehand. I don't see a cashier at McDonald's or Wal-Mart taking my change ahead of time, so WHY MY SERVER that makes tips thinks just because they make tips, they have RIGHTS to that money somehow, HUH? PLEASE ANSWER THAT QUESTION IF YOU DON'T ANSWER ANY OTHER, PLEASE!! I'd like to know WHY if you get your change back at let's say Wal-Greens your every cent back without the cashier taking it, WHY because a person that makes tips thinks they can TAKE IT BEFORE YOU GIVE THE TIP? PLEASE ANSWER, I'd REALLY LIKE TO KNOW HOW IN THE WORLD can you not call that "THEFT" to take *THEIR* money without permission? You can't do it on a credit card and if you do, you will get charged with a CRIME, so WHY CASH should be treated ANY DIFFERENTLY? It SHOULDN'T, that's the point.
I have brought back items for cents before. Just recently, I was going to Wal-Mart anyways, brought back something of $1.68 that was with the new price in the Sunday ad $1.50 back. It was WORTH the 15 or so minute wait to get the cents back, DEFINITELY! WHY pay more if you are there anyways? I also NEVER buy at Wal-Mart the double or triple rolls of toilet paper, because they figure they'd never sell the regular rolls if they didn't give a lower price for them. I figure, I am not that lazy ass that I can't change a toilet paper roll and SAVE LOTS of money. It saves at least a dollar and even more for the mega rolls to buy the 24 regular rolls. It amazes me that some customers will be so lazy as to buy the double or triple rolls and pay more money for the SAME AMOUNT of toilet paper. NO WAY I'd do that. WHY you think we have money to go out to eat and tip well that's WHEN we get good service? I save money in the stores I shop at using competitor's ads at Wal-Mart. It saves lots of money.
"she would have gotten his big mortgage payment in 6 pennies and taken his time up."
If you owed the mortgage company 6 pennies, GUESS WHAT? They'd SEND YOU A BILL, do you realize that? They would NOT let you SLIDE, NOW WOULD THEY?
6 pennies from ALL the mortgage company's customers truly ADDS UP if you think about it.
" If he had complained about that, she could respond, "Well sir, I had to find 6 pennies for your change."
There's NO EXCUSE for that. The server shouldn't have to "FIND" the pennies; they should have some in their apron, for real. All it takes is at least a roll of pennies in their apron to have a bunch for the shift worth.
"Could she have had a bank to begin with? Sure, but we didn't work for Chili's or places that serve Tartar sauce as a side dish. We worked in an upscale restaurant, so most people paid with a card. "
Again, going by MAJORITY, when you NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER SHOULD go by majority when we are ***ALL**** DIFFERENT, so we should be treated as such. Also, WTF does "tartar sauce" which is a ((CONDIMENT)) you MORON(NOT A SIDE DISH), have to do with COINS, you IDIOT? You are comparing apples to oranges here.
What "MOST" people's pay method is means absolutely NOTHING when it comes to an INDIVIDUAL TABLE'S SERVICE. WHY do you think that if 98% of your tables paid with credit cards, that means you can take the excess amount of coins their change is without their permission? You cannot WRITE over their tip numbers on a credit card receipt, right? That's considered credit card fraud, so WHY because it's not traceable by a paper trail, you think you have RIGHTS to someone's coins, even if it's only a PENNY even just because you make tips just because they pay with cash? You wouldn't take their cents if they were paying with a credit card, so WHY paying with cash should be ANY FREAKIN DIFFERENTLY TREATED? BOTH ARE THEFT if you take someone's money without their permission. Even if you write $0.07 over $0.01 on a credit card receipt, you can be fired and get jail time for CREDIT CARD FRAUD for messing with someone's tip written on the tip line, so WHY paying with cash should be treated ANY DIFFERENTLY? IT SHOULDN'T BE YOU IGNORANT FOOL!!! BOTH ARE CASES OF STEALING!! YOU CAN'T DENY THE TRUTH, because that IS WHAT IT IS, STEALING!!!
"Yes, we all make mistakes, oh wait... Not you, forgot your perfection radiates a bright glow among the board members. I bow to your wisdom and knowledge of things that are right and wrong. "
HOW THE F*** is it a "MISTAKE" if you know the change is NOT *((((((((((((((YOURS)))))))))))))))))))) ************YET*******************? It's "THEFT" and an "ASSUMPTION", NOT ANYWHERE FREAKIN NEAR A TRUE "MISTAKE" YOU IGNORANT FOOL!!!! |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 926
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2009 - 12:47 am: |
|
realdeal
"lords of acid: It has nothing to do with an eye for an eye, it has to do with I will not work for free. "
YES it does. If you didn't care if they paid you, you would work for free. That means you work for "AN EYE FOR AN EYE" which is "PAYMENT for SERVICES RENDERED". You pay, I serve, you don't pay, I don't serve. I fail to see WHY you cannot see that it truly is "AN EYE FOR AN EYE" type of situation? If customers don't pay you, you won't give them the proper service(fairly so, but it IS an EYE FOR AN EYE type of service) (You treat me as I treated you last time I came in) type of service.
"Yes washing your dishes is part of the service. If you were eating at home, you would wash your own dish. If you eat where I work, I wash them. As a result I am washing YOUR dirty dish and have provided your lazy butt with a service. Same with cleaning the store."
If that dish is cleaned *************BEFORE************* or ***********************AFTER******************* I have am actually IN the restaurant, sorry, but NO it's NOT PART OF MY SERVICE. HOW can you not have any common sense not to understand that, huh? What happens BEFORE I get to a restaurant or after I have left I am NOT paying for, you IDIOT!! I am paying for what you are doing for me WHILE I am IN THE RESTAURANT as far as WHAT I ASK FOR, meaning WHAT I WANT.
"I also many times do cook their food when the manager/cook is doing paper work. Btw"
I will 100%, BILLION PERCENT AGREE with you that COOKING or PREPARING my food IS a part of my service since it's what I have ASKED FOR. I didn't ask for a clean plate, did I? GET THE DIFFERENCE HERE?
The plate is cleaned, WHO FREAKIN CARES WHO FREAKING CLEANED IT? Did I ask for a plate even? If I didn't, you aren't providing me service I asked for. Let's say you cleaned the plate while I waited for my food to get cooked by a cook. SO WHAT? Cleaning is NOT SERVICE unless it affects the customer's time or room they have on their table. I don't give a flying f##@ if you watch tv or serve customers while I wait for my food. I tip on what I ASK FOR, NOT what you do in the meantime(unless you are cooking or preparing my food) and DEFINITELY NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND TIPS ON BEFORE THEY CAME IN THE RESTAURANT WHAT HAPPENED AND AFTER THEY HAVE LEFT WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING. You aren't "RECEIVING" that service then if the cleaning happens after or before you came in, so WHY tip on service you didn't receive even, huh? That makes NO SENSE. Let's say even if I am still there when you wash my dishes, guess what? Tell me HOW that benefits ME personally? WHY should I tip you when that dish benefits the next customers or upkeep of the restaurant?
"In restaurants that do have dish washers, bus boys, etc. you are paying for that service through higher menu prices than you would at Waffle House. That is one reason our prices are lower than a lot of other places. "
WTF does this have to do with TIPS? WHO CARES? That has NOTHING to do with what service YOU provided me with. WHY bother mentioning that, huh? Are you the OWNER that sets the prices? If NOT, the prices that are set to what they are have NOTHING to do with you, so SHUT THE HELL UP you UNEDUCATED BITCH!!
"Exactly how do I wash your dirty plate before you make it dirty. I don't expect anyone to pay me for cleaning the dirty plate of the person before them, I expect you to pay me for washing the plates and whatever your lazy butt just made dirty. Again, go to a restaurant with a busboy and a dish washer,and to be sure you are paying for your table to be cleaned, your dishes washed, and the place cleaned."
You just don’t seem to get that tips are for ************SERVICE******************, NOT for CLEANING UP, do you? Unless the cleaning up benefits me DURING my service, I could care less if YOU personally washed my dish I am eating off of or not, because you did it BEFORE I came in or AFTER I have LEFT. Do you get that? You would have cleaned it regardless for the next customer WHOEVER it would have been.
You say you expect me to pay you to wash my dish I dirtied. That makes even LESS SENSE, because that dirty dish will not BENEFIT ME IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, or FORM even. That means WTF would someone be so STUPID ASS as to tip on services NOT EVER RECEIVED, HUH? If you clean my dirty dish I dirtied, WHY do you think that has ANYTHING in the world to do with MY SERVICE? You cleaning up that dirty dish ONLY benefits the NEXT CUSTOMER ONLY, NOT ME, therefore WTF should I tip you based on SOMEONE ELSE'S SERVICE? That makes ZERO SENSE, it really does. Even when I dirty a dish at home, that dirty dish benefits my next meal on that plate and upkeep of my house being clean, NOT the CURRENT MEAL I just had YOU DUMBASS!!
It's YOU that's the "LORD OF STUPID", because you expect payment on NO SERVICES RENDERED. WHAT AN IDIOT!! It would make more sense to pay for that plate you cleaned for me WHEN I was actually IN THE RESTAURANT than to pay for you to clean the dish I dirtied that will NOT BENEFIT ME IN THE LEAST.
"However I eat out too, and as a customer when someone hands me change, I never count the coins, so as a result I wouldn't notice if a few cents were missing, and even if I did, I wouldn't care or say anything about it. "
That's your STUPIDITY. You want to be the loser, that's you, I won't be SHORTED EVER and I will ALWAYS FIND THE THIEVES, which you won't. As if you have a right to call me a "LAZY ASS" when you are to FREAKIN "LAZY ASS" to COUNT YOUR COINS. LOOK IN THE MIRROR BEFORE YOU CALL SOMEONE LAZY!!
"If I know that person is doing all of the cleaning of the mess I have made, of course I tip more. "
WHY? Them cleaning the mess YOU made ONLY BENEFITS the NEXT CUSTOMER, just as if you clean a plate for yourself at your home, it benefits your next meal, NOT that CURRENT MEAL you idiot!! People tip on the **********CURRENT********* meal, NOT the FUTURE OTHER CUSTOMER'S MEALS YOU IDIOT!!
"It isn't just me, as a lot of my customers have told me they tip more because we do more for them."
You just said "FOR THEM", well you are mentioning something that is done for the NEXT CUSTOMER, NOT for YOU. Are you that DENSE you cannot understand that? I mean seriously, this makes no sense.
The customer is concerned with what you are doing for THEM, NOT for anyone else you idiot!!!
"I also tip more when I eat out, to make up for the sorry tips losers like you leave behind. "
You are the loser that doesn’t care if they are shorted by a thief and pays for services NOT EVER RECEIVED by tipping on services that ONLY BENEFIT THE NEXT CUSTOMER. By cleaning that dish, you only benefit the NEXT PEOPLE, NOT the current customer that just dirtied their plate you idiot!! WHO CARES if you clean my plate? I care if I get what I ask for, that's all, NOT about what benefits the next people that sit at our table after we have left the restaurant. WHO in their right mind tips on services they NEVER ****RECEIVED****?
"If you are too lazy to stay home to cook and clean up after yourself, and go out to eat, pay the person that is serving your lazy butt, lords of stupid."
You don't get that tips are not for cleaning up, do you? Tips are for getting the food, drinks, and check, etc. that is ASKED for right and in a timely fashion. If you clean my plate AFTER I have eaten off of it, chances are I won't even BE IN THE BUILDING when you clean it, so WTF tip you based on WTF you did AFTER I left when I didn't RECEIVE a BENEFIT WHAT-SO-EVER FROM YOU CLEANING UP AFTER ME? That clean plate will ONLY BENEFIT the RESTAURANT'S UPKEEP and the NEXT CUSTOMER, NOT ME YOU MORON, UNEDUCATED, IDIOT!! You have NO COMMON SENSE, DO YOU?
You don't pay someone to "CLEAN UP AFTER YOU" when you tip you moron. Tips are for "TO INSURE PROPER OR PROMPT SERVICE", NOT to care about what happens BEFORE OR AFTER you have the service. Unless you pick up a dirty dish on a small table, I could care less if you take my dirty dishes during my service even. It doesn't bother me. Give me my refills, entrées, appetizers, desserts, or check in a more timely fashion and worry about clean up work LATER. Care about what I ask for, NOT what I don't care about. I could care less what you do AFTER I have left. Do you honestly care about your server after you have left a restaurant? I sure as hell don't think one second about that. I think about what service she or he PROVIDED ME PERSONALLY that I actually ***KEY WORD*** (((((((((((RECEIVED)))))))))))))).
"teleburst I don't worry about a few cents when giving a customer their change. I always round it off in their favor. If their bill was $48.10 and they gave me $50 to pay their bill, I would hand them back $2, instead of $1.90. That's what I do with the coin change that is left on the table."
WHY not just do what's right and just give EXACT change? WHY do that to begin with? You'd say to save time, well for every customer that pays with change, you can easily lose money that way if they don't tip or don't tip you well, WHY chance that, huh? Is it that it's YOU that's TOO LAZY to get the change?
"btw Lords of Acid when you are at Waffle House,we remove the plates as they become empty as a result you can also see us washing your dishes while you are there."
I have been to Waffle House quite a number of times in my lifetime and I have never once taken notice of a server washing dishes. I have seen and known servers that have COOKED before, but not washed dishes. So no, most customers don't watch their server every second, so they don't take notice of that crap.
"What you don't think you should tip on all of the work the server does?"
Because if it's not part of what the CUSTOMER has ************ASKED OR WANTS*****************, then it's not something someone should be tipping for. Tell me WHY should I tip you if you let's say assumed I wanted ketchup with my fries, but honestly I do hate ketchup, that I should tip on your assumption by you bringing me an UNWANTED ITEM(actually making less room on my table for stuff I actually DID want) or tip on you cleaning my dish BEFORE I was even in the building even or cleaning my dish before I ate off of it? You would have cleaned that dish REGARDLESS to have upkeep of the restaurant even if there was no customer for the next 30 minutes if we didn't show up. That's the truth. That dirty dish you cleaned would have been cleaned anyways, so WHY tip you for something you would have done ANYWAYS whether I was there or not? I know you said that you consider what we dirty that should be tipped, but that makes even less sense, because we aren't receiving that clean plate you cleaned all due to that you didn't clean it for ***US***, you cleaned it for the next customer. Get what I am saying?
"From what planet do you come from where only part of the service gets tipped on."
What planet do you come from where you tip based on what happens BEFORE or AFTER you enter the restaurant? What planet are you on that you tip based on cleaning a plate when you would have to clean it anyways for the upkeep of the restaurant? Customers don't tip on cleaning. They tip on what they ORDER or ASK for. If they ask for a coke, a refill, extra butter, syrup, the check, an appetizer, an entrée, etc., then they tip on that. They don't tip on what happens before or after they enter a restaurant since they NEVER ONCE *********************************RECEIVED************************ that service. What if, just what if, I was your first customer on your shift and the server BEFORE you the shift before cleaned that plate I am eating off of, GUESS WHAT? You cleaning it up AFTER I have LEFT the restaurant BENEFITS ME ZERO, ZILCH, NONE!! WHY THE HELL TIP YOU FOR THAT? Did I BENEFIT in ANY WAY of you cleaning my plate AFTER I ate off of it? NO, the NEXT CUSTOMER SURE DID, but I DIDN'T, therefore, WHY use MY MONEY to pay you for a SERVICE I NEVER RECEIVED?
Their "SERVICE" doesn't EVER include what happened BEFORE they got seated or AFTER they left the restaurant. WHERE do you get it would? WHY would you be so STUPID as to pay for something you didn't receive? That's NOT part of **THEIR** service for you to clean their plate after they ate off of it, that's benefits the NEXT customer ONLY. Don’t you get that? You said: ". I don't expect anyone to pay me for cleaning the dirty plate of the person before them, I expect you to pay me for washing the plates and whatever your lazy butt just made dirty." Well that means, you want someone to pay you for NOT BENEFITTING from that dirty dish. That has NOTHING at ALL, NOT ONE SECOND to do with someone's CURRENT SERVICE.
Let's say you serve me a waffle with bacon. You clean up my two dishes. Guess what? Those dishes you cleaned don't benefit ME at MY TABLE, so WHY consider something that I NEVER ONCE ASKED FOR in the tip that doesn't have ANYTHING to do with **********MY PERSONAL SERVICE***********? WHY tip you based on what happens AFTER I have LEFT? ARE YOU CRAZY OR NUTS TO THINK SOMEONE WOULD TIP YOU ON SOMETHING THEY NEVER RECEIVED EVEN? I'd tip you if you cooked my food a bigger tip as long as things went well of course. THAT would be something you'd be benefiting me, because I asked for a waffle with extra crispy bacon, but if you clean my dishes after I have eaten off of them, am I using these dishes anymore? Ask yourself that? So the tip has NOTHING to do with what happens AFTER I have finished eating off of those dirty dishes, do they? As I said before, if I warm up a plate of spaghetti at home, cleaning it helps me to keep my house clean(upkeep for roaches and such as well as just being clean) and for my NEXT MEAL, NOT for that current meal YOU IDIOTIC STUPID. You called me "lords of stupid" well LOOK IN THE STUPID REAL DEAL'S DUMBASS MIRROR OF LACK OF COMMON SENSE!! YOU HAVE NONE!! People tip based on service they want, not things they don't benefit from you idiot.
What planet do you come from thinking customers tip based on other customers that come in before or after the current customers?
"but also two arms the normal non cheap human understands that when they go out to eat, that they are not only being served food by other humans who also walk on two feet, but only have one mouth to talk from are doing other work for them such as cleaning up the mess their lazy butt left behind.:
The mess that is "LEFT BEHIND" is NOT "SERVICE", because if I have literally LEFT the parking lot even, am I truly ((((((((RECEIVING)))))))))))))) ANY TYPE OF SERVICE HERE? NO, I am not, therefore, WHO GIVES A FLYING F@@$ WHAT HAPPENS AFTER I LEAVE?
"If you go somewhere and get your car worked on, do you just pay for the service of having just one part worked on or do you pay for the service of having it all paid for, just like you should pay on all of the service you get when you eat out. Including but not limited to bussing your table, and washing your plates, cups, glasses, forks, spoons, knives, oh I forgot ice tea spoons, dessert spoons, salad forks, sea food forks."
Not the same. By LAW, we have NO CHOICE in the matter to pay a mechanic their due amount, but a server, unless we are charged automatic gratuity, we have a choice to tip based on the KIND of service we had.
"Then with your one mouth that is located on your one head, but is higher than your two arms and your two legs that are attached to your one body, you are going to whine about a few pennies that would not be enough to even buy one pack of gum that would hopefully keep that one mouth that is on that one head busy for a few seconds to give the world of normal humans a break from your mouth."
NO, I am going to BITCH(*NOT WHINE*) about THEIVES. When you give over the amount to your customers, do you take your tip money or the restaurant's money out of curiosity? It's not about the cents, it's all about the taking the money BEFORE it's YOURS, IF it BECOMES YOURS to keep even.
"This also gives the server two finger to give sign language to let cheap lazy customers see with their two eyes in their one head what they think of your cheap lazy butt."
LOOK IN THE MIRROR that you don't count your coins: "I never count the coins, so as a result I wouldn't notice if a few cents were missing, and even if I did, I wouldn't care or say anything about it. "
You never count coins, because you are too LAZY ASS to do it. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2440
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2009 - 10:07 am: |
|
"Tips are for "TO INSURE PROPER OR PROMPT SERVICE"
This is an urban myth.
"WHY not just do what's right and just give EXACT change? WHY do that to begin with? You'd say to save time, well for every customer that pays with change, you can easily lose money that way if they don't tip or don't tip you well, WHY chance that, huh? Is it that it's YOU that's TOO LAZY to get the change"?
Now you're complaining about the server giving money to the guest? You're a real piece of work.
And finally:
"NO, I am going to BITCH(*NOT WHINE*) about THEIVES. When you give over the amount to your customers, do you take your tip money or the restaurant's money out of curiosity"?
It comes out of the server's tips. |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 562
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2009 - 10:43 am: |
|
Good, at least that is settled.*&&%^&^#^%@$@&))(() |
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 178
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2009 - 04:38 pm: |
|
Lords of Acid, if anyone on here is an idiot, it is you. I do not care if you tip at all as I really doubt you will ever come where I work(at least I hope not, but in that unlikely event you do, and I know it is you sitting in my section, I will give another server $10 to wait on you).
This oh queen of stupid, is how it works, and what service a customer at a Waffle House receives.
1. I bring your silver ware to you.
2. I take your drink order, and while you are deciding what you want, I get your drinks so I am not hovering over you while you decide.
3. I bring the drinks, take the food order, I then place the food order.
4. I bring the food. Along the way I fill drinks, bring other items you may want.
5. As your plates become empty, I take them away and wash them, while the customer is very much still there. By the time they leave the only thing remaining on their table is their glass and perhaps if they smoke an ash tray. If you have never seen a server wash dishes at a waffle house, you were dealing with lazy servers or you had your head so far up your butt you just didn't see it. Perhaps you are so self involved that you, really don't see anything going on around you. You just are cheap and don't want to pay for everything you get.
Also just because you do not see a service being done does not mean it is not being done. You get your dry cleaning done, you do not see it, but it is being done. You get your car worked on, you do not see it, but it is being done. Just two examples.
Yes it is true that servers have no laws protecting them from people like you. Also I can see the only reason you pay for other services you receive is because their are laws protecting other business from people like you. If you could get away with it, you wouldn't pay for anything.
There are restaurants that include a 20% auto-grat on the bill. So yes there are times when the customer has to pay for the service they receive. Of course I am sure a classless twit like you has never been to such a place.
In any case I can see from all of your replys you are a bit on the unstable side. Just take your meds and go down for your nap. In case you haven't noticed I don't call anyone else stupid names, even when they disagree with me. For you, I thought I would use words you understand. |
mockingbird
New member
Username: mockingbird
Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2009 - 07:33 pm: |
|
I finally joined here JUST to comment-- Lords/Springs, you've been just so entertaining! I've been reading all the archives where you flip out over nothing.
You say that you gain nothing whatsoever from the server washing your dishes, because those clean dishes benefit the next customer.
By this logic, you can only claim not to be receiving service if you are the first customer of the day. Because guess what-- there was a customer before you to whom YOU are the next customer, and whose dishes were washed so that YOU can have clean ones. You ARE the next customer when you sit down in the booth, and you directly benefit from the washing of the previous person's dishes.
Also, it's really funny that you think every waiter in every resteraunt wears an apron or has nice big pockets they can keep two bucks of change in. At your chains sure, but at an upscale place the wait staff is usually dressed more nicely.
you crazy, wonderful woman. Let me assure you that your rambling and inability to spot your logical contradictions has provided hours of entertainment to many.
(Message edited by mockingbird on January 11, 2009) |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1056
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 10:20 am: |
|
"It was her mistake to assume that the customer would not care about 6 cents. She would be taking up the customer's time to make change with the manager in the back office, when the customer was ready to leave."
If a customer is in a rush to leave, they will TELL their server they don't want the coins, otherwise, WHY would ANYONE ASSUME such a thing?
Because, after time and time again, I have stated she made the mistake of thinking it was not a big deal. You on the other hand cherish these 6 pennies as your anual salary.
I'd rather ANYDAY for my server to take time to do their job ****CORRECTLY****, than to STEAL from me.
She was not doing it to steal. Stealing is to take for personal gain. She was not gaining anything with 6 cents. She made a mistake.
The server can always carry SOME coins on them, at least $2 worth.
She could have, but as I stated before, the customers who came in usually paid with credit card.
"She was wrong, the customer was a jerk."
The customer wasn't a "JERK", because they had EVERY RIGHT to complain since they had a THIEF for their server. If she was "WRONG", then WHY would you call that customer the jerk?
Because he was reacting like a jerk, she was apologizing for the mistake. You can get more bees with honey, than with vinager. If I wanted my 6 cents, I would have said, "Miss, I'm still missing 6 cents." And she would have gotten for him. No harm, no foul.
I don't see a cashier at McDonald's or Wal-Mart taking my change ahead of time, so WHY MY SERVER that makes tips thinks just because they make tips, they have RIGHTS to that money somehow, HUH? PLEASE ANSWER THAT QUESTION IF YOU DON'T ANSWER ANY OTHER, PLEASE!! I'd like to know WHY if you get your change back at let's say Wal-Greens your every cent back without the cashier taking it, WHY because a person that makes tips thinks they can TAKE IT BEFORE YOU GIVE THE TIP? PLEASE ANSWER, I'd REALLY LIKE TO KNOW HOW IN THE WORLD can you not call that "THEFT" to take *THEIR* money without permission?
Because Cashier's are working from a register.
"Could she have had a bank to begin with? Sure, but we didn't work for Chili's or places that serve Tartar sauce as a side dish. We worked in an upscale restaurant, so most people paid with a card. "
Again, going by MAJORITY, when you NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER SHOULD go by majority when we are ***ALL**** DIFFERENT, so we should be treated as such. Also, WTF does "tartar sauce" which is a ((CONDIMENT)) you MORON(NOT A SIDE DISH), have to do with COINS, you IDIOT? You are comparing apples to oranges here.
Now see Lords, you messed up. In my posts, I didn't revert to name calling, but you did. Shame on you and any future discussion with you is a waste of my time.
Good-bye. |
kris
New member
Username: kris
Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 08:22 pm: |
|
(Overlooking the whole cleaning dirty dishes argument)
Why would any customer assume the worst over 6 cents or any miscounted change for that matter? Everybody makes mistakes. Just bring it up politely to the server. We are living in a society so why can't we be civilized, please. Forget "principle", how about some common decency. |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 927
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 10:09 pm: |
|
teleburst
I said: ""Tips are for "TO INSURE PROPER OR PROMPT SERVICE"
You said: "This is an urban myth. "
No, it's the truth: http://www.abbreviations.com/b1.aspx?KEY=105398
"TIPS To Insure Prompt Service"
"Now you're complaining about the server giving money to the guest? You're a real piece of work."
NO, YOU are a piece of work being UNFAIR to ALL customers whether they pay with a credit card or how much coin change are they SUPPOSED to ONLY get back. So Jane Doe can pay with a credit card and get no extra change, but Joe Schmoe who paid with not exact change, got free money, let's say 10 cents as the example realdeal gave? HOW is that "FAIR" or "MORALLY RIGHT?" It's NOT FAIR OR MORALLY RIGHT, because ALL CUSTOMERS should be treated EQUALLY. Let's say John Doe is owed $2.95, so realdeal gives him $3 (3 dollar bills). John Doe just got less money than Jane Doe UNFAIRLY so, even between the 2 people that paid with cash. WHY you call me a "REAL PIECE OF WORK" when it's YOU and REALDEAL that is by treating customers UNFAIRLY. WHY not just give exact change by having some ON YOU at ALL TIMES and exchange some dollars at the BEGINNING of your shift that's from the **REGISTER**(NOT from YOUR PERSONAL MONEY)? I'd rather just give the exact change instead of do all of that. Think about if John Doe was going to leave only $2, that means the server would have took a LOSS of 5 cents on just that one customer. Think of ALL the customers that pay with cash as to how much money you can lose in a week or month or year even. You may say it saves time to do it your way, but you take a loss that DOES ADD up to DOLLARS in a YEARS time and you know it, so WHY do it? It doesn't save any time if you keep change on you at all times, except for the few seconds it takes to count the coins ONLY if the change ends up being the next dollar to where you wouldn't have any coins. WHY give them more and possibly take a LOSS? WHY? Is it laziness? You think you should save time for the customers not to lower the tip through waiting too long for the change, but you have to realize that you can keep some coins on you, so you wouldn't have to wait for the bartender to get the coins. At places like Waffle House, usually I have paid at the counter and the register does have coins that I can remember, so WHY not just give exact change?
Why do restaurants have the servers not have coins in their register out of curiosity, huh?
"It comes out of the server's tips."
Maybe MOST servers do, but that doesn't mean realdeal does that. She could be taking it from the register, you don't know. |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 928
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 11:13 pm: |
|
realdeal
"5. As your plates become empty, I take them away and wash them, while the customer is very much still there. By the time they leave the only thing remaining on their table is their glass and perhaps if they smoke an ash tray. If you have never seen a server wash dishes at a waffle house, you were dealing with lazy servers or you had your head so far up your butt you just didn't see it. Perhaps you are so self involved that you, really don't see anything going on around you."
When you take them away, you are helping the customer make room on their table. When you wash their dish, however, all you are doing is washing it for the ********NEXT CUSTOMER***********, NOT at ALL benefiting the CURRENT CUSTOMER that is sitting there. Do you really think they care what you do with that dirty dish that ate off of? It's not part of that person's service.
"You just are cheap and don't want to pay for everything you get."
Don't you get it though, that I am NOT "GETTING" that dish I dirtied. You are TAKING it from me, so when you clean it, it's not for ME ANYMORE. That means that's not part of "MY" SERVICE.
I am NOT "CHEAP."
"Also just because you do not see a service being done does not mean it is not being done. You get your dry cleaning done, you do not see it, but it is being done. You get your car worked on, you do not see it, but it is being done. Just two examples. "
Those examples are NON-TIPPED employees so they are TOTALLY, COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to this conversation.
Service is being done that I don't see like when my server fills my glass with ice and drink. Things such as that would be stuff that WOULD be part of my service since they are "GETTING" something for ********ME*********, NOT SOMEONE ELSE, YOU IDIOT!!
"Yes it is true that servers have no laws protecting them from people like you."
WHAT kind of person do you think I am? I tip.
"If you could get away with it, you wouldn't pay for anything."
NO, because I am "FAIR" and you aren't. You give someone 10 cents extra, but someone else that pays with a credit card or has less coins leftover, you give less to them.
If the server is very good, they'll get BEYOND the 20%, probably 25% or so. If they suck, they will get ZERO. If they weren't so great, but ok, they will get less than 20%.
"Of course I am sure a classless twit like you has never been to such a place. "
OF COURSE I have been to such a place. The thing is, I normally don't have a large enough party to have automatic gratuity added.
"In case you haven't noticed I don't call anyone else stupid names, even when they disagree with me."
Look at this: "AGAIN JUST LIKE LORDS OF STUPID" "FOAMING AT THE MOUTH JUST LIKE LORDS OF STUPID." "pay the person that is serving your lazy butt, lords of stupid."
It's YOU that called me a stupid name, so SHUT THE HELL UP you HYPOCRITE!!
I pay for the service "I" receive, NOT what someone else receives "REALDEAL OF STUPID." You are an idiot to think someone will actually pay for something they aren't benefiting from or receiving. WHY do you think they should pay for you to clean their dishes? It's not benefiting them in ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.
"Exactly how do I wash your dirty plate before you make it dirty."
The customer before me made it dirty, NOT ME, YOU STUPIDASS!! You cleaned it BEFORE I even came in the BUILDING. Let's say you cleaned it right before you put my food on the plate, hypothetically. It's not my fault or problem that SOMEONE ELSE made that plate dirty that it isn't clean. Do you get what I am saying? Washing dishes is SIDE WORK, NOT ANYTHING ELSE. Washing dishes is NOT part of someone's service by ANY MEANS.
"I expect you to pay me for washing the plates and whatever your lazy butt just made dirty. "
You just don't get that by you cleaning my dirty plate isn't going to "BENEFIT" me in ANY WAY and it is NOT at ALL part of my service. I don't give a flying f**@ if you don't EVER clean that plate, because I will be GONE. Don't you get that? That plate I dirtied doesn't concern the customer. The ONLY things that concern the customer is stuff that actually "AFFECTS" THEM PERSONALLY. Things like refills, condiments if any were asked for, getting their check, etc. Things that actually the CUSTOMER WANTS to their table, NOT what you do with the dirty dishes once you take them away. Don't you get that?
"1. I bring your silver ware to you.
2. I take your drink order, and while you are deciding what you want, I get your drinks so I am not hovering over you while you decide.
3. I bring the drinks, take the food order, I then place the food order.
4. I bring the food. Along the way I fill drinks, bring other items you may want."
All of these ARE 100% "SERVICE" to tip on. These are ALL what the CURRENT CUSTOMERS RECEIVE. Bringing stuff to the table, NOT for what happens after you take things FROM the table that are DIRTY.
HOW in the world can you call "SERVICE" for a dirty dish that is cleaned something that the customer "RECEIVES?" They aren't RECEIVING the cleaned dish back, are they? I mean for real, you are STUPID as can be to think that washing a dish I dirty has something to do with what I ASK for or WANT in MY SERVICE. You are DUMB!!
"what service a customer at a Waffle House receives. "
You cannot list "wash dishes", because they aren't "RECEIVING" that as a part of the customer's service. THEY AREN'T, that's the TRUTH, NOT an opinion, NOT a lie, the TRUTH 100%!! |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 929
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 11:19 pm: |
|
mockingbird
"You ARE the next customer when you sit down in the booth, and you directly benefit from the washing of the previous person's dishes."
That has NOTHING to do with "SERVICE", especially when the cleaning happened BEFORE I got seated even.
I don't care if you cleaned it from someone else or not. The service I want is the service that I tip on, NOT whether it was YOU or SOMEONE ELSE that cleaned my dish for me.
"Also, it's really funny that you think every waiter in every resteraunt wears an apron or has nice big pockets they can keep two bucks of change in. At your chains sure, but at an upscale place the wait staff is usually dressed more nicely."
Usually nice dressy pants DO have POCKETS you know. You are just looking for excuses. |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 930
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 11:29 pm: |
|
vozveratu
"Because, after time and time again, I have stated she made the mistake of thinking it was not a big deal. You on the other hand cherish these 6 pennies as your anual salary."
It doesn't matter if she though it was no big deal, because it's COMMON SENSE you don't take things that don't belong to you.
"She was not doing it to steal. Stealing is to take for personal gain. She was not gaining anything with 6 cents. She made a mistake."
It wasn't a "MISTAKE", because a mistake is UNINTENTIONAL. 6 cents IS a GAIN. As your example, the mortgage company WILL send me a bill for 6 cents. 6 cents is 6 cents. A person at a store may let you slide, but their register WILL be short if they don't put any overages in. HOW in the world can you say 6 cents isn't a gain? From EVERY CUSTOMER that pays with cash, it could add up to dollars.
A mistake is not intentional, which means that she would have just not subtracted correctly, but to not give any change at all shows she decided to be LAZY to not get the coins. THAT IS NOT A MISTAKE by a LONG SHOT. That is INTENTIONAL 100% to DECIDE to not go get the coins. It's a DECISION in this case and in my 31 cents case as well. They didn't want to go get the coins, so they DECIDED not to. It wasn't that they accidentally miscalculated the change amount. It was that they decided NOT to get the change, which that IS INTENTIONAL.
"She could have, but as I stated before, the customers who came in usually paid with credit card."
When you serve, you NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, go by majority!! You always go by individuality. You don't "ASSUME" all customers will pay with a credit card or gift card.
"If I wanted my 6 cents, I would have said, "Miss, I'm still missing 6 cents." And she would have gotten for him. No harm, no foul."
There was harm done. It's called a DELAY in LEAVING and THEFT. Instead of getting my 31 cents quicker, now that waiter we had made more trips, costing us MORE TIME.
"Because Cashier's are working from a register."
WTF does this have ANYTHING to do with getting your correct, EXACT CHANGE? If they give it, just because you make tips doesn't mean you can keep part of the change. WHY do you feel you should be able to keep it without someone's permission to take it? It's not yours. Would you like it or do you like it when people take stuff from you without ASKING? |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 931
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 12, 2009 - 11:33 pm: |
|
kris
"Why would any customer assume the worst over 6 cents or any miscounted change for that matter? Everybody makes mistakes. Just bring it up politely to the server. We are living in a society so why can't we be civilized, please. Forget "principle", how about some common decency."
First off, it's NOT a "MISTAKE" when they don't bring back one cent of the change. Secondly, it's COMMON DECENCY to not steal, isn't it? WHY you feel it's that the server forgot? They didn't forget. They were too damn lazy to get the change is what it is all about. I don't think they want the cents. I think they don't want to get the change and think they will be getting tipped anyways, so they keep it without asking first.
We live in a society that people that makes tips think they can take someone's change without their permission, while you got to a store or McDonald's, you end up getting EVERY CENT of your change with NO PROBLEM.
We live in a society that servers think we *OWE* them a tip instead of ******EARNING********it by making an extra trip to GET the coin change.
(Message edited by lords of acid on January 12, 2009) |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1059
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 09:00 am: |
|
future discussion with you is a waste of my time.
Good-bye.
I stand by what I stated earlier. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2452
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 11:15 am: |
|
"teleburst
I said: ""Tips are for "TO INSURE PROPER OR PROMPT SERVICE"
You said: "This is an urban myth. "
No, it's the truth: http://www.abbreviations.com/b1.aspx?KEY=105398
"TIPS To Insure Prompt Service"
Oh yeah, this is "authorative" - riiiiight.
Here's a more credible source:
http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.asp
Think about it. How do you "INSURE prompt service" after the service through the use of a tip AFTER the service has already happened? It's a cute bit of creative acronym-building but it has no basis in fact. Someone simply decided to shoehorn some words to make an acronym. It certainly wasn't Shakespeare.
"Now you're complaining about the server giving money to the guest? You're a real piece of work."
NO, YOU are a piece of work being UNFAIR to ALL customers whether they pay with a credit card or how much coin change are they SUPPOSED to ONLY get back. So Jane Doe can pay with a credit card and get no extra change, but Joe Schmoe who paid with not exact change, got free money, let's say 10 cents as the example realdeal gave? HOW is that "FAIR" or "MORALLY RIGHT?" It's NOT FAIR OR MORALLY RIGHT, because ALL CUSTOMERS should be treated EQUALLY. Let's say John Doe is owed $2.95, so realdeal gives him $3 (3 dollar bills). John Doe just got less money than Jane Doe UNFAIRLY so, even between the 2 people that paid with cash. WHY you call me a "REAL PIECE OF WORK" when it's YOU and REALDEAL that is by treating customers UNFAIRLY".
What a maroon. There's no "fairness" issue at all. I'm free to give a guest $100 if I want to. You have no idea about the concept of "fair" and "morality". You need to stop swimming in the deep end of the pool. Stick to the shallow end. Man, the fact that you are so ballistic over a nickel indicates some serious issues. Really. the fact that you don't even know that servers don't have registers simply indicates total stupidity, especially from someone who spends their lives in restaurants noting every single detail and putting a stopwatch to the help.
Why do restaurants have the servers not have coins in their register out of curiosity, huh"?
Servers don't have a "register", you moron. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2453
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 11:19 am: |
|
"Don't you get it though, that I am NOT "GETTING" that dish I dirtied. You are TAKING it from me, so when you clean it, it's not for ME ANYMORE. That means that's not part of "MY" SERVICE".
Just wanted to point out that the mere act of removing the plate from your table is part of your service. In fact, it's a *required* part of any tableside service. I know that this is a hard concept for you to understand, but please try. |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 565
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 11:28 am: |
|
Your getting paid by your employer for that service. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1060
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 12:53 pm: |
|
Your getting paid by your employer for that service.
Are you serious? You believe this? OMG, I thought you had some sense, but man was I wrong.
Please Paid-up, what exactly is your definition of service in a sit-down restaurant? What do you expect from the server? And please, refrain from further stupidity, just tell us what you expect when you go out to eat. Don't even worry about the tipping part. |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 571
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 03:45 pm: |
|
You seem to think that the customer owes you something when you serve them. They owe you nothing. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1064
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 03:57 pm: |
|
You didn't answer my question, paid-up. Your wasting my time.
Good-bye |
mockingbird
New member
Username: mockingbird
Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 04:25 pm: |
|
Lords, dressy pants or not, it's still pretty unprofessional for a server at a higher-class restaurant to jingle.
And as much as you love to think otherwise, MOST people do consider the entirety of the work that the server is doing when they calculate their tip. I'm not about to scream that you're an idiot for not considering it-- your money, your perogative. But I'll tip more on a busy night, knowing the server is working harder. I'll tip more if I make a big mess that has to be cleaned up, because believe it or not, I honestly want to make up for it. (I'm not a server either, just someone trying to be decent). Speak for yourself, stop putting words in the mouths of other restaurant-goers.
And no, Lords, six link to specific people agreeing with you does not a majority make. |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 574
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 06:10 pm: |
|
From a poverty stricken server, thank You. |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 932
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 07:53 pm: |
|
vozveratu
"future discussion with you is a waste of my time. Good-bye. I stand by what I stated earlier."
That just shows you I have proved you are 100% WRONG and I am 100% RIGHT that you have no come back.
teleburst
"How do you "INSURE prompt service" after the service through the use of a tip AFTER the service has already happened?"
You "insure" it by trying your best so you CAN get a good tip. If you know what you will be getting anyways, WHY in the world would you try hard at all?
"There's no "fairness" issue at all. I'm free to give a guest $100 if I want to. You have no idea about the concept of "fair" and "morality"."
It IS a "FAIRNESS" issue, because if you give $100 to one customer for free, you are supposed to give ALL your customers that to be "FAIR" and "EQUAL" to ALL your customers. IT VERY MUCH (((IS)))) an issue of fairness. WHY should Jane Doe get more money than me just because she pays with cash? WHY should Joe Schmoe get 5 cents less than Jane Doe just because you are too lazy ass to get the coins?
"Servers don't have a "register", you moron."
Where does the CASH come from then and WHY don't you hear much about someone shorting someone actually cash to often? They have to go to the bar to get cash? When we were shorted the 31 cents, I saw our waiter come from the computer. Isn't that where the cash is stored?
I am not a "moron" to know where cash is stored or not stored, because I don't pay with cash ever to know this or pay attention to someone else's change being given.
"Just wanted to point out that the mere act of removing the plate from your table is part of your service. In fact, it's a *required* part of any tableside service. I know that this is a hard concept for you to understand, but please try."
It's service to some people, but for me, I count it only if it benefits me in terms of room on the table if needed. If I am at a large table, it doesn't matter if they take the plates or not, because it doesn't bother me. Do you understand? If it's a small table, it definately will bother me, so I would count that in my service. I honestly don't care if they put it on a table behind me that's dirty. In other words, they don't have to go to the kitchen to put them away, because as long as it's not on my small table, it's not bothering me one bit.
In other words, tips are for things that "BENEFIT" the customer, so if I am at a large table, it doesn't benefit me for the server to take our dirty dishes, it really doesn't. If I am at a small table, then yes, it does benefit me then to get the dirty dishes out my way.
mockingbird
"I'll tip more if I make a big mess that has to be cleaned up, because believe it or not, I honestly want to make up for it. (I'm not a server either, just someone trying to be decent). Speak for yourself, stop putting words in the mouths of other restaurant-goers."
Then you are the STUPID IDIOT to pay for something you don't actually "RECEIVE", kind of like throwing away money LITERALLY. WHY would you pay for something you didn't receive?
"And as much as you love to think otherwise, MOST people do consider the entirety of the work that the server is doing when they calculate their tip."
NO, you are 100% WRONG. They consider what work they are PROVIDED, NOT what side work the server does that they will be doing for the NEXT customers. The work being tipped on is ONLY based on the CURRENT CUSTOMER'S SERVICE, NOT on what side work they do. If someone like you wants to pay for something they don't receive, that's you being stupid. MOST people pay for what they receive ONLY. People also don't pay their server for restocking or mopping or sweeping either. Those are things for the upkeep of the restaurant and those are not part of anyone's service to speak of.
Do you honestly think people tip based on if their server washed dishes? Most people, including myself, didn't even know that the servers at Waffle House washed dishes. Unless you, or you had a friend or relative that has worked at a restaurant like that, you wouldn't even know that a server had to wash dishes.
"But I'll tip more on a busy night, knowing the server is working harder."
HOW do you know they are working harder? Second of all, so you are telling me if your service is terrible(like 20 minute wait for just one coke), the server forgot to put your order in which made you wait an hour for your order, then you got overcharged items you didn't order, they forgot your condiments you asked for without an apology, etc. that you'd really pay someone a good tip just because they are "BUSY?"
WHY in the world would you base your tip soley on if it's busy or not? WHY not tip based on the service *******YOU********** personally receive and NOT just if it's busy. I am not saying I don't consider when it's very busy, because I do, but that's not the ONLY thing I base my tip on. The server has got to be fair and get my orders right to tip well during a busy time. It's easy to be fair, because you know who ordered what first. I just had the other night, waited at least 15 minutes to get 1 tea and 1 diet coke. I saw the guy was running around like a chicken with his head cut off. The thing was, he did some things I wouldn't have done. We had ordered just drinks and dessert, not a full meal. We had ordered a dessert they were out of during the time we ordered our drinks, which he came back without the drinks to tell us that all because he ASSUMED we came in especially for that dessert, which we didn't. He greets the next table that came in after us. Eventually he comes back with both sets of drinks for our table and the table behind us that had at least 5 people at it. I understand it's busy, but he could have been fair. He should have gotten just ours in a SEPARATE trip since he wasted a trip due to his assumption, that he could have brought our drinks at that time instead. At least he handed them out fairly, but he was unfair with the lenght of time we waited for our drinks. I don't care if it's busy, you can treat people fairly. I honestly think we waited almost 20 minutes. I know we waited for sure at least 15 minutes by the time we got our 2 drinks. I ordered a white russian and the check. He waits until the white russian is ready to give the check. Anyway, he got 12%. In other words, I don't care how busy it is if my service is UNFAIR. Those people got seated AFTER us, so they should wait an extra amount of time it takes to make an extra trip from the soda station to our table. It's only fair and morally right. Towards the end of our service, he wasn't nearly as busy, so there was no reason to wait until the white russian was ready to give the check. We could have handed the credit card to him at the time of the check instead of being delayed like that. There's no way I would just hand the credit card without looking at the check of course, that would be nuts.
(Message edited by Lords of acid on January 13, 2009) |
kris
New member
Username: kris
Post Number: 8
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 10:02 pm: |
|
Lords, it's called giving people the benefit of the doubt and yes, it's the polite thing to do. If you really think they are being devious or lazy about coins then you could say,
"I save all my coins at the end of the day and use it toward a nice holiday at the end of the year."
"I give all my coins to my child's [niece, nephew, grandchild, etc] piggy bank."
People do that, you know. The point is, if you think the server thinks you, the customer, are making a big deal out of 6 cents then you can turn it around and they could feel guilty for hording it.
I don't think you need to give an explanation.
"Excuse me, but I don't think you gave the correct amount of change back."
NOT: "You thief! How dare you assume I wouldn't want my change! *&%$!!!!"
Man, I hope you wouldn't say something like that.
I actually don't think the server couldn't give a cr@p about 6 cents or any other pocket change.
Therefore, I think it would have been some kind of human counting error or mind lapse. A polite customer would at least come across to the server that it was.
And yes, table service includes taking your dishes away. You go to a restaurant to eat good food and not get stuck with the dishes, right? Unless you didn't bring enough money (hee, hee).
If a cashier didn't give you the correct amount back, would you assume he/she was pocketing it? Why would this be any different? |
mockingbird
New member
Username: mockingbird
Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 10:46 pm: |
|
I love your black-and-white thinking, Lords. If the place is obviously packed, then I'm going to take that heavily into account if there's a mistake or if food takes a long time. It's (as you love to say) common sense that busier servers are working harder and deserve the benefit of the doubt. Naturally food will take a while in a busy kitchen. I expect this and would never tip less for that kind of wait.
I don't tip to make my servers focus on me or to make them work harder. I tend to trust that my servers are working plenty hard as it is. I tip because that's what you DO in an American restaurant. Because the servers depend on tips for their income, and I honestly don't mind giving an extra buck without analyzing every minute detail of service.
The restaurant runs the way it does so that every customer can be served efficiently. Every job the servers have is given to them to make the whole experience run smoothly. That's why I tip even when the server DARES to clear another table or sweep something up. You have this bizarrely narrow definition of "service", Lords, and you just seem incapable of understanding that other people don't share it. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1065
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 08:51 am: |
|
vozveratu
"future discussion with you is a waste of my time. Good-bye. I stand by what I stated earlier."
That just shows you I have proved you are 100% WRONG and I am 100% RIGHT that you have no come back.
Incorrect. It proves your an idiot.
Good-bye |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 933
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 09:16 am: |
|
kris
"NOT: "You thief! How dare you assume I wouldn't want my change! *&%$!!!!"
Man, I hope you wouldn't say something like that."
NO, we didn't when it happened to us. I just told asked our waiter where the rest of our change was. It wasn't a mistake, it was laziness. Common sense would be $5 change back if the bill would have been $35, NOT $34.69. The bill was $34.69, so common sense that there was some coins to be given. I actually went towards the kitchen to get OUR money that he STOLE. He took it without OUR PERMISSION, so he got stolen his tip away from him by us. We mutual agreed that it was wrong to not return part of OUR change to leave nothing.
"I don't think you need to give an explanation."
If that's so, WHY suggest this: ""I save all my coins at the end of the day and use it toward a nice holiday at the end of the year.""I give all my coins to my child's [niece, nephew, grandchild, etc] piggy bank."
I don't need ANY type of explanation to get our complete amount of change back, because it was OURS, NOT HIS at that time.
"Therefore, I think it would have been some kind of human counting error or mind lapse. A polite customer would at least come across to the server that it was."
It's not "human error" when you don't give ANY coin change at all when the amount is not exactly dollars only. Come on now, you really believe it's not done on purpose, because of laziness?
They weren't polite to me to take money that wasn't theirs yet, so I have a right to ask where my change is at. I am not going to say something like "I think you owe me some change", because I KNOW if I am owed change or not.
"And yes, table service includes taking your dishes away. You go to a restaurant to eat good food and not get stuck with the dishes, right?"
I am not "STUCK" with cleaning the dishes. Also, it's "NOT" service if it's not BOTHERING the customer, is it? Service is for what the customer *******RECEIVES************, NOT for what they don't want or care about. At buffets, normally the tables are big, so I don't give a care if we stack up the plates and nobody takes them, because it doesn't bother me. Now if I am at a small table, the of course it's in my way.
You go to a restaurant to get what *****YOU**** want, NOT what you don't care about. Do you understand that if the dirty dishes aren't in the customer's way that it's not helping them, unless they are so nitpicky that they don't like the sight of dirty dishes?
"If a cashier didn't give you the correct amount back, would you assume he/she was pocketing it? Why would this be any different?"
I agree, that's why I don't understand why you think it's "human error" when they don't give your coins back? I am not saying people don't make mistakes, but it's more likely that they would hand you let's say 30 cents when they owed you 40 cents than to completely not give you back your coins at all that it would be more than likely a mistake.
mockingbird
"It's (as you love to say) common sense that busier servers are working harder and deserve the benefit of the doubt."
It doesn't mean they are working harder. It's most likely they are, but there are some lazy servers out there.
They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt just because it's busy. You get what you deserve. You mess up, your tip should get some parts messed up. What goes around, comes around. I treat you the EXACT, EXACT, WAY you treat me. Don't expect me to care about you if you don't care about me, you know?
"I tip because that's what you DO in an American restaurant."
How lame!!You are pathetic, because it's the "NORM" you think someone ***EARNS**** more money. I tip because the server EARNED it, NOT because it's what you normally do.
"I don't tip to make my servers focus on me or to make them work harder."
If you want to get rided all over, that's you. I won't let my servers that serve us give us crap service. I tip based on the service that I receive, NOT what they did for some other customer.
I don't tip to make them work harder. I tip them based on the service they provided ME. I don't tip for the server to focus only on me. I tip for the service they provide me. I don't expect them to soley be at my beck and call, because I am NOT the only customer 99.9% of the time. A couple of times, we have been the only customers during odd hours though, not anywhere near closing time either.
"The restaurant runs the way it does so that every customer can be served efficiently."
Waiting 15 minutes for a coke and a tea is NOT "EFFICIENT" service. Even a manager at Chili's agreed with me when once that happened to us. The drinks within the server's control should be brought within 10 minutes for only a party of 2 from the order being taken.
"That's why I tip even when the server DARES to clear another table or sweep something up."
If that affects your time, WHY would you tip them knowing that human being's time comes before things that don't tip. People with feelings come before clearing a table off or sweeping that can be done a few minutes later. MOST people think it's RUDE if let's say Jane Doe was to go to McDonald's inside to get something to-go, but the cashier kept sweeping and ignoring the customer. People don't like waiting when they don't have to in general. Every minute the server takes to clean up, that's more time you wait for whatever you have asked for, when they should have thought about the person PAYING them instead of things that aren't as important as LIVE, REAL human beings that have appointments, work, movies, etc. They have other lives and honestly, the faster you get the customer served, the more likely they are to leave sooner to get an OPPORTUNITY to make more money getting more tables sat.
"You have this bizarrely narrow definition of "service", Lords, and you just seem incapable of understanding that other people don't share it."
It's only people like YOU that don't share it. WHY do you hear about time complaints so much at restaurants if customers didn't care about how long they waited for things, huh? Just because you don't care you waited an extra 2-3 minutes doesn't mean the person next to you wants to sit there waiting that longer for things they asked for. If the person is tipping you, you should put THEM as TOP PRIORITY BEFORE inanimate objects that won't be tipping you.
It's YOU that has the "bizarre" view of what service truly is. Service is what you RECEIVE, NOT for things that are side work that have NOTHING to do with your service. I pay for my server to get me things like my food, drinks, refills, check, condiments, or just anything that I request. I don't tip them for sweeping 2 tables by me or for taking dishes 2 tables by me. That's not ANY PART of MY table's service. That's that other table that has no one in it, NOT MINE.
"I honestly don't mind giving an extra buck without analyzing every minute detail of service."
If you want to pay your servers for things they don't deserve, that's your stupidity. |
mockingbird
New member
Username: mockingbird
Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 01:36 pm: |
|
My definition of "service" in a full-service restaurant is "anything that, were I eating at home, I would have to do myself." That's what I'm paying for-- for someone to help me decide what to order, for someone to cook my meal and present it nicely, bring my drinks, keep the place clean, do the dishes and re-stocking, bring my food, wipe down the table after. All of this has plenty to do with my service.
What you just never seem to get is that no one is tipping BECAUSE the server is helping another table/the wait was long/the food wasn't exactly correct. But I don't know anyone else who would take AWAY from the tip for mistakes like that. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2459
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 05:00 pm: |
|
""Servers don't have a "register", you moron."
Where does the CASH come from then and WHY don't you hear much about someone shorting someone actually cash to often"?
The cash comes from the server. Some restaurants require the server to have a bank from which to make change from. Usually it's $20. And yes, they are supposed to have change (if a bank is required). However, if you happen to be later in the evening, the server might well have given all of their coin change away and not gotten any of it back.
"They have to go to the bar to get cash"?
Yes.
"When we were shorted the 31 cents, I saw our waiter come from the computer. Isn't that where the cash is stored"?
Nope. Servers don't have access to the register, (almost always the bar). You saw them come from a terminal, not a register. Who knows where they were before you saw them come from the terminal.
"I am not a "moron" to know where cash is stored or not stored, because I don't pay with cash ever to know this or pay attention to someone else's change being given".
No, you're a moron for stating it as a fact that a server has a "register" when you don't have a clue (and adopting a rude tone as well).
""Just wanted to point out that the mere act of removing the plate from your table is part of your service. In fact, it's a *required* part of any tableside service. I know that this is a hard concept for you to understand, but please try."
It's service to some people, but for me, I count it only if it benefits me in terms of room on the table if needed".
No, it's one of the most important service points whether or not you consider it such. Yes, we know that you don't mind sitting at a pigpen, but that doesn't keep it from being "service". There's not a "service program" in the world that doesn't include the clearing of plates during the meal. |
kris
New member
Username: kris
Post Number: 16
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 11:38 pm: |
|
"I don't think you need to give an explanation."
If that's so, WHY suggest this: "I save all my coins at the end of the day and use it toward a nice holiday at the end of the year.""I give all my coins to my child's [niece, nephew, grandchild, etc] piggy bank."
Don't mix it up, please. I said if you wanted to play a mind game and try to make the server feel guilty about a few cents, you could basically state that he would be stealing from your grandchild's piggybank or from your big jar of coins going toward a vacation. It's a deceptive thing to do but one you could employ if you are feeling as venomous about this as you have come across here about it.
After which, I said I don't think it's necessary. I already explained why I don't think it is. I never said it was wrong to simply ask for your correct change and I agree with you whether you think it's on purpose or not.
teleburst is right, there are terminals for ordering or printing checks but not money.
"I don't give a care if we stack up the plates and nobody takes them"
You can't be serious. I would probably deduct from the tip if that happened.
"I pay for my server to get me things like my food, drinks, refills, check, condiments, or just anything that I request. I don't tip them for sweeping 2 tables by me or for taking dishes 2 tables by me."
Yes, cleaning up that table was a part of that tables's service as it will be when you leave yours. You might not tip with that in mind, but it is a part of eating in a restaurant. Unless you are being neglected, why do you care if a server cleans up another table? The restaurant itself is a business and they need to turn over tables to remain a viable business. |
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 184
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 02:50 pm: |
|
Lords_of_Acid ,aka Lords_of_stupid, aka Lords_of_cheapness.
You come up with a lot of excuses not to pay for all of the service you get. You said since the dirty plate is being taken away from you to be cleaned rather than given to you, that it isn't a service. That is just stupid, as if you were making and eating dinner at home you would have had to wash those dishes. Since someone else washed them for you, that means they provided you with a service in addition to the normal services a server provides.
Mockingbird said it best
"My definition of "service" in a full-service restaurant is "anything that, were I eating at home, I would have to do myself." That's what I'm paying for-- for someone to help me decide what to order, for someone to cook my meal and present it nicely, bring my drinks, keep the place clean, do the dishes and re-stocking, bring my food, wipe down the table after. All of this has plenty to do with my service."
As to tips meaning to insure proper service, that doesn't even make sense. If that was what it really meant, it would make more sense if the customer tipped in advance. I guess in your case Lords_of_Acid with your low tips it could just as easily mean to insure poor service.
Your poor husband, I can't even imagine the crap he must have to hear night after night. |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 585
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 03:13 pm: |
|
realdeal she has one, you? |
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 188
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 03:24 pm: |
|
I am most happy to say I am single. I will get married when I can find one that is worthy of me. lol |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 588
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 03:25 pm: |
|
Maybe your posting will help you explain why you are single. |
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 189
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 03:28 pm: |
|
Lords_of_Acid Most of the time I don't expect a customer to tip me, if I haven't done anything for them. However in your case I think you should send everyone on here that is a server, at least $500 a week just because we are all so special. Just having to read your posts is a lot of work.
paid_up: This goes for you too. Now pay up, paid_up.
lmfao |
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 190
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 16, 2009 - 03:42 pm: |
|
You are right paid_up, smart enough to keep my freedom and my options open. |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 934
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 09:10 pm: |
|
mockingbird
"My definition of "service" in a full-service restaurant is "anything that, were I eating at home, I would have to do myself." That's what I'm paying for-- for someone to help me decide what to order, for someone to cook my meal and present it nicely, bring my drinks, keep the place clean, do the dishes and re-stocking, bring my food, wipe down the table after. All of this has plenty to do with my service."
When you say "COOK", in just about ALL restaurants besides Waffle House, COOKS actually do the cooking, so you don't actually TIP them, do you? SO WHY mention this as "SERVICE" when you don't tip the cooks? You tip your SERVER, NOT the cooks!!
"Service" is what things the server does for YOU, NOT what is already done whether you would have been there or not. An example, my server washed my dish at Waffle House ((BEFORE)) I arrived. I eat on it during my service. She washes it for the NEXT CUSTOMER, NOT ME. So WHY would you tip based on washing dishes if these as YOU call them "SERVICE situations" don't happen to "YOU", because you are either not there or you are finished so you won't receive that dish you dirtied cleaned? "Service" is for things you benefit from, NOT from things you don't. You may say someone else is washing the dishes or dish you dirtied, but when you are at home, YOU BENEFIT from your dish or dishes being cleaned so **YOU** can use it again and so your house is kept clean. However, when that Waffle House server cleans the dish you dirtied, you won't receive that dirty dish cleaned. Your service is OVER WITH and that dish will be cleaned for the NEXT CUSTOMER. The clean dish or dishes you ate off of were cleaned BEFORE you even arrived. If they were cleaned during the time you ate there, you didn't request to have clean dishes, did you? They could give me a paper plate for all I care or styrofoam plate just as they do for pancakes at McDonald's. Tips are for what you ASK for, NOT for what you didn't ASK for. They are for things that you said you wanted. Under normal circumstances though, the dish or dishes would have been cleaned BEFORE you even arrived, so those dishes would have been cleaned no matter WHO THE HECK came in. Even if the restaurant would be closing and they'd never see a customer again, the dishes would be cleaned to keep the UPKEEP so things would be clean, NOT for someone.
You said "restocking", but that's going to be done REGARDLESS of WHO comes in. That's not part of someone's service, because the server will be restocking anyways. I had to restock at the donut shop. Do you honestly think I counted that as "SERVICE" when I had to refill sugar caddies, refill ice a lot, refill the sweet-n-lows etc. for DRIVE-THRU, refilled the sweet-n-lows for inside customers, refilled(milks, orange juices, and jellies) in the refrigerator in front, refill napkin dispensers for inside as well as drive-thru napkin area, etc.? OF COURSE THAT WASN'T SERVICE. Restocking is NOT part of someone's service. If you refill that napkin area not at MY table, HOW is it service? If you refilled the napkin dispenser BEFORE I showed up, that's not service either. That was done BEFORE I arrived. If you refill it afterwards, that doesn't benefit me either. I didn't get tipped 99.9% of the time through drive-thru just because I had to restock. Are you kidding me that you think that "RESTOCKING" is part of service?
You said "Wipe down the table after", uh NO, if I have left the restaurant, that has NOTHING to do with MY SERVICE, because my service is OVER WITH. Unless they wipe down the table during the time I am still sitting, I am not receiving that action. Therefore, WHY tip based on something I did not receive? Wiping down the table before I got seated would have been done whether I would be there or some other customer or even if the restaurant closed.
You said "for someone to help me decide what to order", well that's you. For me, I don't have a stranger's opinion in my service. I KNOW what I want already without their help. If I do ask questions, then that would be part of my service, but I rarely do that. 99.9% of the time I know what I want already.
You said "keep the place clean", uh NO, if they mop or sweep or clean another table that isn't yours, that's not part of your service. Your service is ONLY what happens with YOUR TABLE ONLY, NOT what goes on around you.
Do you understand what "SERVICE" really is? It's for things YOU REQUESTED, NOT for things that are done not for you.
You said "All of this has plenty to do with my service", uh NO, MOST of it doesn't.
"What you just never seem to get is that no one is tipping BECAUSE the server is helping another table/the wait was long/the food wasn't exactly correct. But I don't know anyone else who would take AWAY from the tip for mistakes like that."
Just read some comments on complaint.com, planetfeedback.com, and my3cents.com. The food taking too long lots of times is taken out on the server when it's not their fault even. You have NO CLUE of WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!
http://www.planetfeedback.com/red+lobster/other/terrible+service/257270
"I went to your restaurant and ordered and it took the waitress over 5 minutes just to bring my drink! THEN, when my husband stood up to head to the restroom, he was nearly pummeled with our food that had taken 20 minutes to get to our table. This was outrageous! I was almost too miserable to eat anything at all."
This is just ONE example of MANY that are out there of people complaining about their service.
People noticing what's going on around them and if someone is served before them when they were after them, YES, I have even had a customer at the donut shop that bitched me out when I didn't do it on purpose. I was doing drive-thru at the time on a typical evening shift, which this was around 6p.m. at night, which the shift was from 2p.m.-10p.m. A lady and a man walked in, which they sat at the booth all the way on the other side of the donut shop. They also had a man with like 4 kids or so that sat at the counter that came in also. I didn't happen to notice WHO came in first since I was busy doing drive-thru at the time they walked in. I went to the CLOSER customers, which when I did, the lady went just like this "WE WERE FIRST!" I deserved it, but I didn't do it on purpose, because I didn't know who came in first and it's not like I had a hostess or host to ask who got seated first either. We always worked by ourselves on the afternoon shift upfront, so no co-worker saw who came in and no other customers were there besides the customers that walked in at the time. I NEVER did that again and I learned my lesson that I should have asked who was first. Anyway, my point is, people DO TIP according to if they are not served in the ORDER in which they order in. What's fair is fair and what isn't, isn't. I messed up, so I deserved no tip from that lady. I wasn't thinking about if that was me as I should have.
As far as the food being correct, OF COURSE people take off points. Are you NUTS to think they don't? If anything, a lot of times, servers get blamed for raw food or slightly under or overcooked steaks when they put in the order correctly into the computer. You have NO CLUE AGAIN, of WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!! |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 935
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 09:27 pm: |
|
teleburst
"The cash comes from the server. Some restaurants require the server to have a bank from which to make change from. Usually it's $20. And yes, they are supposed to have change (if a bank is required). However, if you happen to be later in the evening, the server might well have given all of their coin change away and not gotten any of it back. "
I said: "They have to go to the bar to get cash?"
You responded: "Yes. "
If they have to go to the bar, there's no EXCUSE to not be able to get coins. There is no excuse not to be able to get change periodically throughout the shift. The waiter brought the 31 cents to me after I asked for it, so WHY NOT BEFORE? WHY did he INTENTIONALLY be that lazy and decide to ASSUME he was getting a tip? This was in the afternoon even, probably around 4p.m. or so, so it wasn't extremely busy like 7p.m. at night or something.
Also you said "It comes out of the server's tips." I don't get that then? WHY add your OWN personal money when you can give EXACT CHANGE that is from where it's supposed to come from, the RESTAURANT'S MONEY? You may say it saves time from having to get change from the bar, but a EFFICIENT, SMART worker would have gotten enough change and would have gotten change periodically throughout the shift instead of just getting only $20 as their change bank.
"There's not a "service program" in the world that doesn't include the clearing of plates during the meal."
That's YOUR OPINION. I will tip based on what "BENEFITS" me, not what I don't care about. If that dirty dish or glass at a big table or booth doesn't bother me, then WHY make the server lose tip points based on something that doesn't bother me? I make the server lose tip points based on things that DIRECTLY AFFECT ME. Things like my food being obviously correctly, getting things in a timely manner as far as things the server is in control of such as refills or putting in the food order quickly, etc., would be things that would DIRECTLY AFFECT me. My server picking up that dirty dish won't help me and in some cases, may make what I did ask for get DELAYED. I had that happen a few times where the servers decided to pick up dirty dishes instead of getting what was asked for as if they couldn't have done that WHEN they delivered what I asked for. For example, the check can be delivered and then the dishes be taken away instead of taking them away first. It's not "SERVICE" if it's not wanted. The entire point of tipping is to GET WHAT (((((YOU)))))) want, NOT what you DON'T WANT. |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 936
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 09:38 pm: |
|
kris
I said: "I don't give a care if we stack up the plates and nobody takes them"
You said: "You can't be serious. I would probably deduct from the tip if that happened."
That's YOU and I don't get WHY you would deduct for something that you didn't ASK for? WHY would you deduct for things that let's say wouldn't be in your WAY even?
"Unless you are being neglected, why do you care if a server cleans up another table? The restaurant itself is a business and they need to turn over tables to remain a viable business."
I care if I have asked for something and they do something like that. That's just mean and RUDE. Let's say you go to McDonald's inside. You are at the register waiting to place your order and you have to be back, because you only have a 30 minute lunch(we only have a 30 min. lunch where I work). Anyway, the cashier continues to wipe down tables and continue to clean instead of take your order. You don't think that's RUDE and INCONSIDERATE to do that? You could have already been ordered by the time she decided to come back 2 minutes later, let's say. Same thing with non-fast food service that if the server cleans a table when you just asked for something, that cleaning can be done AFTER. There's no need to hold up customers. WHO wants to wait an extra minute or 2 if they can have their stuff in less than 30 seconds even? I don't know ANYONE that likes waiting, do you? There are people that don't mind waiting, but those people would still rather have their stuff quicker and you know it. MOST people however, HATE waiting.
"Yes, cleaning up that table was a part of that tables's service as it will be when you leave yours."
NO, it WON'T be a part of that table's service. ONLY what is brought to that table or anything that happens AT THAT TABLE is ONLY part of that table's service. NOTHING ELSE IS. WHERE DO YOU GET THAT IT IS? |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 937
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 09:53 pm: |
|
realdeal
"That is just stupid, as if you were making and eating dinner at home you would have had to wash those dishes. Since someone else washed them for you, that means they provided you with a service in addition to the normal services a server provides."
You said the difference here: "EAT AT HOME", meaning that when you eat at HOME, you wash your dishes, at a restaurant you DON'T "BENEFIT" from getting your dirtied dishes washed. Do you get that or what? You dirty a dish at home. You clean it for YOUR NEXT MEAL, NOT another customer's meal since it's YOUR PLATE, NOT a restaurant's plate. You also clean it to keep your house clean as well.
When you go to a restaurant, the act of you cleaning my dish I dirtied I WON'T GET BACK AT MY TABLE, YOU MORON!!! WHY can't you get that I won't be "RECEIVING" that plate CLEANED during my service if I am FINISHED EATING OFF OF IT?
It doesn't matter if they clean the dish I dirtied, because it's NO LONGER PART of my table's contents. The table doesn't contain that dirty dish anymore and you won't be bringing it back when you cleaned it either. Even if you did bring it back cleaned, since I won't be using it again, it would be in my way more than something I would benefit from. WHY tip based on things that aren't "SERVICE" related? Service is what the CUSTOMER WANTS, NOT WHAT THE CUSTOMER DOESN'T WANT OR CARE ABOUT. I don't care IF or WHO CLEANS THE DISHES I DIRITIED. Don't you get that NO ONE CARES about that type of stuff? It's NOT "SERVICE." You didn't clean that dish I diritied for me, so WHO CARES if you clean it or don't clean it. I don't give a rat's ass if you clean it. I tip for what service YOU provide ME, personally. You aren't providing me with something I benefit from if you are cleaning my dirty dishes. If I was eating at home, I would be cleaning them, but when I finish cleaning them, I DO have clean dishes to eat off of next time around. At a restaurant though, that dirty dish that was cleaned by you would be served to the next customer. That next customer wasn't even there when you cleaned that plate. Even if they were, you would honestly have to clean that plate REGARDLESS of WHO comes in.
Do you get now FINALLY, that the dishes you clean don't BENEFIT the customer that just diritied their dishes? It doesn't matter WHAT you'd do at home, because this is NOT your home. That's why when you are at home, it benefits you to clean your dishes after you eat off of them. At a restaurant though, it doesn't benefit the customer that dirtied that dish if you cleaned it. They've asked for their check or dessert. As far as they are concerned, they just want to get what they asked for. They don't care if the cook or managers wash the dishes or if they get washed at all, because they ate off the the dishes already. Do you get that or what? Do I have to explain in some type of baby language for you to understand that you cannot compare a customer's home vs. a restaurant? It's like comparing apples to oranges. You don't tip based on comparing the 2, because they aren't the same by a long shot. The customer doesn't care if you or someone else or if they dishes they have dirtied get cleaned at all. WHY do you think they do? Especially if they will NEVER go back again whether it's due to they didn't like the food or the service or the restaurant is too far away, so they will even more so NEVER benefit from their dirty dishes being cleaned. Do you finally get where I am coming from or what? If you don't, you are the one that is really stupid, I mean for real!! |
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 192
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 10:35 pm: |
|
Lords_of_Acid or whatever, you can type all of your book length posts you want but it does not change the fact that when I wash a customers dishes, glasses, etc. it is a service I am doing for them. To look at it another way, it is me saving them from the work of cleaning up their mess. Everything me or anyone else does from start to finish is me saving them from having to do it themselves. It really doesn't matter what you think as most are intelligent enough to understand this basic concept and tip with the extra service in mind. When you say they don't care, you really mean YOU don't care as you don't know what my regular customers think, but after waiting on them 3-7 days a week for over three years, I do. The old saying of comparing apples to oranges is almost as stupid as you. They are both fruit, as such can be compared.
I have known where you are coming from, from the time I read your first post. You are a very bored self centered women without a lot going on in your life, and you come here and type book length posts because you have nothing else to do. You do not give a rat's ass about anyone or anything other than YOU getting what you want.
Honestly I don't really care what you and paid_up think about anything, and you can type back to this post or not, I am done with you, and will not respond. I know you are a bit slow, but read this carefully I AM DONE WITH YOU, AND WILL NEVER RESPOND TO ANY OF YOUR STUPID POSTS AGAIN!!! |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 938
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 11:20 pm: |
|
realdeal
"but it does not change the fact that when I wash a customers dishes, glasses, etc. it is a service I am doing for them."
HOW? Are they getting those dishes back that you cleaned that they dirtied? They AREN'T, so it's NOT "SERVICE."
"To look at it another way, it is me saving them from the work of cleaning up their mess."
At home, you'd clean your mess, but at a restaurant, you DON'T, so this is not a valid point.
"Everything me or anyone else does from start to finish is me saving them from having to do it themselves."
In restaurants, customers don't cook, but yet, do we tip cooks? NO, we don't. Do we tip the managers that do things that would be part of our service such as take a coupon off our check? NO, we don't. I understand at Waffle House, they sometimes make the SERVERS cook, which we tip them. Cooking is part of the service, because I ASKED for that food that you would be cooking me. I didn't ask or want that plate I dirtied to be cleaned for me, nor does it matter if it is or not. At home, it would matter, but not at a restaurant. Do you get the difference here?
"When you say they don't care, you really mean YOU don't care as you don't know what my regular customers think, but after waiting on them 3-7 days a week for over three years, I do."
If you are so smart, ASK them, for real, ask what they know about what you do and WHY they tip what they tip.
"The old saying of comparing apples to oranges is almost as stupid as you. They are both fruit, as such can be compared."
They are both fruit, but they are very different fruits and TASTE VERY DIFFERENT.
"You are a very bored self centered women without a lot going on in your life, and you come here and type book length posts because you have nothing else to do.'
That's YOU. You want to complain about customers, so it's YOU that's self-centered by acting as if customers have to pay for things they don't RECEIVE. That's selfish. I don't receive that dish you cleaned for me, because you didn't clean that dish for "ME", you cleaned it for the NEXT CUSTOMER.
"You do not give a rat's ass about anyone or anything other than YOU getting what you want."
That's YOU, that's why you expect people to tip based on things they won't be benefitting from IN THEIR SERVICE.
"you can type back to this post or not, I am done with you, and will not respond. I know you are a bit slow, but read this carefully I AM DONE WITH YOU, AND WILL NEVER RESPOND TO ANY OF YOUR STUPID POSTS AGAIN!!!"
You are just MAD, because I proved you WRONG and you know I am 100% RIGHT!! That's why you have nothing else to say, because I PROVED YOU WRONG!!
(Message edited by Lords of acid on January 20, 2009) |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2477
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2009 - 11:25 pm: |
|
"teleburst
"The cash comes from the server. Some restaurants require the server to have a bank from which to make change from. Usually it's $20. And yes, they are supposed to have change (if a bank is required). However, if you happen to be later in the evening, the server might well have given all of their coin change away and not gotten any of it back. "
I said: "They have to go to the bar to get cash?"
You responded: "Yes. "
If they have to go to the bar, there's no EXCUSE to not be able to get coins".
Hey, Ms. Priss, I'm in agreement with you. I always round to the favor of the guest and have said that every server should, *if* they aren't going to give exact change. Most guests don't want to mess with change because they almost always leave it, even when it's clear that it's extra change. I only explained that servers don't have access to their own register, a fact that you seemed oblivious to.
"Also you said "It comes out of the server's tips." I don't get that then"?
Yes, that much is clear.
"WHY add your OWN personal money when you can give EXACT CHANGE that is from where it's supposed to come from, the RESTAURANT'S MONEY"?
Because I don't care about pennies. Or nickels. Or, frankly, anything less than .50. If rounding up means I lose .49 out of $100 worth of tips, I'm willing to "give that away". Especially if it means saving the guest a couple of minutes getting change. One would think that you'd understand at least *that*.
"You may say it saves time from having to get change from the bar, but a EFFICIENT, SMART worker would have gotten enough change and would have gotten change periodically throughout the shift instead of just getting only $20 as their change bank".
It doesn't work that way, and you'd know this if you had bothered taking the job that you were too afraid of taking. BTW, we don't "get" a $20 bank from the house, you know. That is OUR money that we bring in from home. That seems another fact that you seem ignorant of.
""There's not a "service program" in the world that doesn't include the clearing of plates during the meal."
That's YOUR OPINION".
No, that's fact. Don't believe me? Get a job as a server. If you don't remove plates, you won't last a week. That's just the way it is because there are virtually no people (except for you) who doesn't expect their dead plates to be removed and there isn't a restaurant in the US that would allow empty plates from a previous course to remain on the table unless a guest specifically asks for them to remain. Feel free to research the standards of service. I guarantee you that you will find no system that allows for plates not to be removed before the next course is placed. Not only that, but most restaurants have a very specific policy as to what is supposed to be on the table at the end of the meal.
"For example, the check can be delivered and then the dishes be taken away instead of taking them away first. It's not "SERVICE" if it's not wanted. The entire point of tipping is to GET WHAT (((((YOU)))))) want, NOT what you DON'T WANT".
If you, as the guest, ask for the check before the final dishes are cleared, that's fine. I'll comply because I want you gone as soon as possible. However, in the absence of such a directive, the standards of service are to be complied with. I understand that you have no clue about standards, since you are so warped in your view of dining out, but that's just the way it is. If I have to lose your tip to keep my job, then so be it. You aren't worth it. And you aren't worth me compromising service standards, unless you specifically ask for it. It happens sometimes (just happened Saturday night actually) that I'm asked for the check before dessert was even delivered. That was just fine with me because I don't want my guest to be late for Vince Gill at the Symphony. Just last night, I had a couple of ladies who wanted to keep their salads through their entrees. That was just fine with me - however, I had to ask them if they wanted the entrees for the table because you just don't being the next course until the previous course is finished even if a couple of people have been finished for a while. It was part of my service to notice that they were hanging on to their salads and to ask them what they wanted to do. But it isn't their place to demand that I compromise service at another table, as you are demanding. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1076
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 08:57 am: |
|
I will tip based on what "BENEFITS" me, not what I don't care about.
And lords, how are we suppose to know this? I have had customers get mad because we didn't take the dirty plate and your saying that your going to get mad if I take the plate? Quit giving opinions, give us solutions. What would you like for us to do in that situation? |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1077
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 09:05 am: |
|
"The old saying of comparing apples to oranges is almost as stupid as you. They are both fruit, as such can be compared."
They are both fruit, but they are very different fruits and TASTE VERY DIFFERENT.
Lords, you moron. The saying goes for people who ask which is better, the lemon cake or the chocolate cake? Our response would be saying apples / oranges due to the fact that they are both good, but they taste differently.
In a nutshell, it's our way of telling the guest that neither is worse or better, it just depends on what you like.
Geez, your retarded. |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 595
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 09:46 am: |
|
vozveratu, calm down young one. Lords isn't buying any of your dripple. It sounds like you swallowed a whole bunch of hers.
realdeal- if you do not want to respond
that would be all right. Most of your posts were filler anyway. Repetitive
and self serving. With almost air of self pity. |
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 193
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 05:45 pm: |
|
Lords of Acid I do not have any complaints about 99.5% of my customers as most have no problems tipping for everything I do for them, and many have told us exactly that. They have told us that they do not mind tipping us more than 20% as they feel we are all working hard for them.
Not remove dirty plates? That would go over big, as in not!!! It is very simple. When the plates come full of food, they are a welcome sight. When the food is gone, they are a dirty plate that no one wants to look at. Regardless of where you work, even with bus people, servers have to at least pre bus. It not only helps the current guests, but pre busing also helps arriving guests when it is busy. If it is done right, by the time they leave all that is left is what they are drinking from. Then all that is needed is a wipe down of the table, new silverware, etc. and the new guests have a table.
vozveratu: You are right about lords. I wasn't going to respond but it is hard to refuse to answer a child's simple question. I am talking about lords of stupid. |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 598
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 08:43 pm: |
|
Is that the best you can do? |
mockingbird
New member
Username: mockingbird
Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 08:52 pm: |
|
Lords, you're so great at missing the point XD Obviously, you have a different definition of "service" than I do. So I give you my definition so you can see where at least a couple other people are coming from...and you proceed to scream at me that my definition is "wrong". Because it's not the same as yours. When my entire point was that, you have a different definition than anyone I've ever met.
It's like you're utterly incapable of understanding that other people have different opinions. Or that you can be wrong about things. But honestly, it's sad that you can't comprehend other ideas. I wasn't even saying your definition was wrong. I was explaining where I come from.
You DO benefit from dishes being washed in a resteraunt. If the dishes weren't done, there would be NO clean plates. No, Lords, you aren't getting the specific plate back that you dirtied, but you're getting a plate back that someone else dirtied, and was washed for you. That washing is a service.
You're really a lot of fun. Please, keep coming back screaming. It really makes your point well.
(Message edited by mockingbird on January 21, 2009) |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 939
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 10:21 pm: |
|
teleburst
"BTW, we don't "get" a $20 bank from the house, you know. That is OUR money that we bring in from home. That seems another fact that you seem ignorant of. "
I said: "They have to go to the bar to get cash"?
You responded: "Yes."
You also said "The cash comes from the server."
WHY would the restaurant make you pay what THEY are supposed to pay back? You would lose a lot of money if you paid with your own money change that's supposed to be from the restaurant's money, so I don't get it? Can you explain please?
So if the customer is owed $50 if their check is $100 and they pay with a $100 bill, that means YOUR MONEY is going to them that you have earned? If so, how is that right or fair? HOW do you even make any money then if YOU have to pay out of your own pocket for the restaurant's change THEY are supposed to provide? Also, WHERE did the waiter get the 31 cents he owed us then if it was supposed to be the waiter's money? I thought he got it from the bar.
"Because I don't care about pennies. Or nickels. Or, frankly, anything less than .50. If rounding up means I lose .49 out of $100 worth of tips, I'm willing to "give that away". Especially if it means saving the guest a couple of minutes getting change. One would think that you'd understand at least *that*."
Saving time part over literally 20 extra seconds at the most to count some coin change is not worth in my opinion losing dollars worth in one week's time. Imagine if 50 customers in a week let's say you gave them 45 cents each, that's $22.50. Do you realize how MUCH money you are making yourself lose for people you don't know will tip well or that will tip at all even? There's no way I would ever round. I would give exact, to the penny, change. I wouldn't lose money just because a customer doesn’t want to wait for their change. If they don't want to wait for their change, they obviously should have chosen to pay with a credit card or bank card or bring exact change to begin with. I would have enough change on me not to have them waiting very long. Counting 4 dimes and a nickel is not that time consuming, it really isn't. Even if I have to count out 44 cents, which means getting either a quarter, a dime, a nickel, and 4 pennies or I can get 4 dimes and 4 pennies. I see no point to shorting yourself. There's no way in hell I would short myself even one penny, NO WAY!!
"If you don't remove plates, you won't last a week. "
That's the MANAGER/OWNER that wants that, NOT all customers do though or care if it happens even. That's why I said it's your opinion, because the "SERVICE" you provide is what the CUSTOMER benefits from, NOT what you are "REQUIRED" to do as a server. Understand now?
vozveratu
"I have had customers get mad because we didn't take the dirty plate and your saying that your going to get mad if I take the plate? Quit giving opinions, give us solutions. What would you like for us to do in that situation?"
I NEVER once said I would get mad if you took MY plate at MY TABLE, unless I just asked for something. I also said I would get mad if I just asked for something, let's say our check or a refill, that you would decide to worry about dirty dishes over someone's request. The dirty dishes can simply wait an extra minute or 2. They won't walk away and in the meantime, you would be satisfying someone that truly requested something.
I don't have any problem with you taking my dirty dishes, but you can do it AFTER I let' s say have my check I just asked for. In other words, don't waste valuable time grabbing those dishes and making a trip to the kitchen by dropping those dishes off, then having to come back to the computer terminal when you could just go get our check instead and THEN bring those dishes in the kitchen while we look over our check. It's faster and beneficial to our server too, because then we get the hell out of the restaurant quicker than if we have to wait longer for you to bring dishes when we could have used that time to look over our check and get our method of payment out. Then, after you bring the dirty dishes to the kitchen, if you aren't doing anything else at the time, you'd ring up our check.
Do you get what I am saying here? People do gripe a lot about how long they wait for things such as their refills, so think about that it would make more sense to get the refills FIRST, then clear the dirty dishes off the table. Do you want to wait extra minutes for something if you don't have to? I sure as hell don't. |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 940
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 10:36 pm: |
|
mockingbird
"Obviously, you have a different definition of "service" than I do. So I give you my definition so you can see where at least a couple other people are coming from...and you proceed to scream at me that my definition is "wrong". Because it's not the same as yours. When my entire point was that, you have a different definition than anyone I've ever met.
It's like you're utterly incapable of understanding that other people have different opinions. Or that you can be wrong about things. But honestly, it's sad that you can't comprehend other ideas. I wasn't even saying your definition was wrong. I was explaining where I come from."
You don't seem to understand what is the difference between a "FACT" and an "OPINION." A "FACT" is that you HAVE to be in the restaurant to "RECEIVE" a service. A "FACT" is that the dish I diritied will get cleaned REGARDLESS if I am there when it gets cleaned or not and I won't be using it again.
"You DO benefit from dishes being washed in a resteraunt. If the dishes weren't done, there would be NO clean plates. No, Lords, you aren't getting the specific plate back that you dirtied, but you're getting a plate back that someone else dirtied, and was washed for you. That washing is a service."
You don't get that it's a "FACT" that 99.9% of the time, you aren't PHYSICALLY in the restaurant ((((WHEN)))) that action of cleaning that dish that was cleaned BEFORE I even entered the restaurant that would have been cleaned whether it was ME eating off of that dish or someone else. Let's say I am in the restaurant when you clean a plate for me, even so, I NEVER once ASKED for that, so I shouldn't have to tip based on something I NEVER ONCE ASKED FOR and also, they would have cleaned it anyways even if I WEREN'T there you know, so there's no "SERVICE" here, because I didn't ask for that and it would be cleaned no matter WHO came in next.
There's no "SERVICE" if you aren't IN THE BUILDING to "RECEIVE" the service. Do you get that or what? It's a "FACT" that it's not service if you aren't *(***********THERE**************))))) to RECEIVE that service. HOW in the world can you call something "SERVICE" if you aren't ((((PHYSICALLY THERE))))) to "RECEIVE" it, huh? That plate I ate off of was one that was cleaned ******WAY THE HELL BEFORE I ENTERED THAT RESTAURANT********, so WHY should THAT become part of my service when I wasn't even there when it was cleaned and it would have been cleaned no matter WHO the hell next came in. THAT IS A FACT, NOT an OPINION you idiot. You need to go back to elementary school to know the difference between a fact and an opinion is, because you obviously can't tell the difference.
I am arguing with you about this, because I telling you FACTS. I am not stating what my opinion of service is with washing dishes. I have stated my opinion on taking dishes from my table, but NOT about washing dishes. Do you understand that I haven't stated my opinion about something that is PURE FACT that you can't "RECEIVE" a "SERVICE" in a restaurant if you aren't phyically there to receive it?
(Message edited by Lords of acid on January 21, 2009) |
mockingbird
New member
Username: mockingbird
Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 10:58 pm: |
|
Lords, I GET that when some of this service is being done when i've already left, or before I'm in the resteraunt. It is my opinion that it is still worth tipping on, because it's still work the server is doing so my experience can be better. |
paid_up
Intermediate Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 600
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 07:31 am: |
|
A server washing dishes? Where do you work "MOM'S"? |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1082
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 09:31 am: |
|
vozveratu, calm down young one. Lords isn't buying any of your dripple. It sounds like you swallowed a whole bunch of hers.
You call dripple, which I think you ment dribble, is more like common sense in my book. At least I'm not responding with CAPS in ALL MY STORIES about what CUSTOMERS SHOULD TIP and should not TIP....8p |
paid_up
Advanced Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 601
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 10:32 am: |
|
Oh no, did I hit you with the big bad ink? Dripple is what said. Deal with it. You got the message. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2480
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 10:57 am: |
|
""BTW, we don't "get" a $20 bank from the house, you know. That is OUR money that we bring in from home. That seems another fact that you seem ignorant of. "
I said: "They have to go to the bar to get cash"?
You responded: "Yes."
You also said "The cash comes from the server."
WHY would the restaurant make you pay what THEY are supposed to pay back? You would lose a lot of money if you paid with your own money change that's supposed to be from the restaurant's money, so I don't get it? Can you explain please"?
Yes. Since you asked nicely, I'll explain.
Servers bring in their own banks because it's easier all the way around. Restaurants don't want to keep around extra money to give to servers as a bank. They try to keep the minimum amount of money possible in order to service the guest directly at the bar where you do have a larger number of cash transactions and to pay out the waitstaff at the end of the night. A very small percentage of sales are actually in cash these days. Most, probably 90 - 95% of server sales depending on the type of restaurant, are credit card sales. And, for security reasons, you wnat to minimize the amount of cash on the premises that you keep.
But the main reason is that it's much easier for everyone from an accounting standpoint not to have to worry about "paying back the restaurant" at the end of the night. We don't "pay out" and "pay in" a specific amount. Everytime you have a register (and you know this from your counter days), if money leaves the register for any reason other to make change directly to a customer, it has to be rung up as a paid out and it has to be accounted for. Imagine having a dozen paid-ins and paid-outs a shift that have to be accounted for. It's an unnecessary bookkeeping complication. And all of the money that the restaurant uses to run the restaurant comes out of registers at the bar (for the most part). Obviously, diners (they type of restaurant, that is) have a cashier and far fewer servers on the floor, so they might actually get a bank from the house, but I'm talking about the normal mainstream casual to fine dining restaurant.
So we servers are required to supply a "bank". It's from this bank that we make change. At the end of the day, the amount of our "cash on hand" after checkout (the money we get from the restaurant after we tip everyone out) minus our bank is what we make. That's why, we have to be careful about co-mingling money that we happen to have because sometimes it makes it hard to see what we've actually made, especially if we have more than the average number of cash tables (in my current restaurant, I can go a week or two without a single cash table). So, it's important for us to know how much of a bank we actually have and keep any other cash that we might be carrying separate.
The restaurant never requires us to do anything other than give back exact change. In fact, they wouldn't "allow" a server to cheat a guest out of any change (so, you see, both the restaurant and I actually agree with you). If I choose to "round up", that's a personal decision that I have made, usually for the convenience of the guest, but sometimes it's for *my* convenience as well. If I'm getting slammed, I don't have time to deal with a bunch of change. I used to go down to the penny in my early days, but I always got those pennies back. So I started rounding up to the next nickel. I almost always got all of the change back. Finally, I started only giving quarters back when necessary (if I needed to give .65 back, I gave back .75, etc.) And, guess what, I almost always got that change back. So now, I usually don't leave change at all unless the change is almost a dollar. Then I *will* leave a dime or whatever the change is instead of rounding up because, no, I'm not really insterested in giving away almost a dollar of my tips. But a nickel? A dime here and there? Don't mind that at all. To me, it's the price of doing business in an efficient manner. And most guests might even appreciate the gesture. Your the first person I've ever heard of who sees getting the extra change as something almost evil. I'll have to say that this confounds me.
Voz wrote:
"You call dripple, which I think you ment dribble, is more like common sense in my book".
Common sense to me is simply not bothering with P_U. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1083
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 12:12 pm: |
|
Common sense to me is simply not bothering with P_U.
If I had to pick the smartest thing on the board, said. Teleburst has just quoted it. Thank you, Teleburst. |
paid_up
Advanced Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 603
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 03:44 pm: |
|
I thought you would have to rely on teleburst. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1085
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 04:25 pm: |
|
Us servers have to stick together against all you mean customers... |
neecey93
Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 180
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 04:32 pm: |
|
hee hee :-)
(Message edited by neecey93 on January 22, 2009) |
mockingbird
New member
Username: mockingbird
Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 09:05 pm: |
|
Hey Lords, I've got one for you. Have a hypothetical:
Let's say you hire a personal chef. While you're at work, your chef is working in your home, preparing your dinner. When you walk through the door, the table is set, food is ready, and all the cleaning has been done aside from what you're using to eat.
Is this a service? Forget about tipping-- this is about the definition of the word. To most people, the chef is performing a service in setting up and cooking your meal. BUT OH! You weren't physically in your house while this work was being done! Does that invalidate it as a service? If this isn't a service, what is it? A job? Well, the job is to provide you a service, the same way a hairstylist provides you with a haircut or a maid service cleans your house. You're paying for them to do this job; you're paying for the service.
YOU seem to use "service" uber-specifically to mean "what I am tipping on." THAT'S the part where we differ. |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 941
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 11:02 pm: |
|
mockingbird
"It is my opinion that it is still worth tipping on, because it's still work the server is doing so my experience can be better."
Do you understand though, that the cleaning the dishes beforehand would have been done NO MATTER WHO came in next? That means the server didn't clean those dishes for (((YOU))) PERSONALLY. They cleaned it for WHOEVER comes in and for the upkeep of the restaurant if no one comes again until the next day even.
As far as when you have left the restaurant, them cleaning those dirty dishes aren't for (((YOU))) to benefit from, because you aren't going to be eating on them next, someone else will though.
What I am trying to say is, the server isn't doing that work to make *****YOUR******** personal experience better. They would be cleaning those dishes before you got there no matter what. The server cleans the dishes you dirtied isn't going to make "YOUR EXPERIENCE" better when your "EXPERIENCE" IS OVER WITH.
You say about "YOUR EXPERIENCE", but "YOUR EXPERIENCE" hasn't started when they are cleaning that dish for WHOMEVER ends up eating off of those dishes and "YOUR EXPERIENCE" has ENDED when you give the dirty dishes to the server, because you have no real reason to get those dirty dishes cleaned back and you MOST probably would have LEFT the building by the time your server actually cleans them for you.
SO TELL ME "HOW" is that in ****YOUR EXPERIENCE**** if they aren't cleaning it for ****YOU**** personally? I am just curious why you think they are cleaning those dirty dishes for you when you end up eating off of them? They would have cleaned them REGARDLESS if you were there or not. They would clean your dirty dishes you dirtied AFTER you left more than likely, not at ALL, doing anything to your actual experience when you were actually physically there in the restaurant.
"Let's say you hire a personal chef. While you're at work, your chef is working in your home, preparing your dinner. When you walk through the door, the table is set, food is ready, and all the cleaning has been done aside from what you're using to eat. Is this a service? Forget about tipping-- this is about the definition of the word. To most people, the chef is performing a service in setting up and cooking your meal. BUT OH! You weren't physically in your house while this work was being done! Does that invalidate it as a service? If this isn't a service, what is it? A job? Well, the job is to provide you a service, the same way a hairstylist provides you with a haircut or a maid service cleans your house. You're paying for them to do this job; you're paying for the service."
Not the same. It's kind of like paying the mechanic to do a job on your car. You HAVE TO BY ****LAW***** pay this person a fee, whether it would be the personal chef or the mechanic. With tipping, unless you have to pay automatic gratuity, you don't have to tip the person based on what they did.
This situation isn't the same by a LONG SHOT, because when the chef cleans up, it's MY HOUSE HE IS CLEANING UP, SO I TRULY ****BENEFIT**** from that. My personal dishes get cleaned. If he used his own dishes, my kitchen gets cleaned. In a restaurant situation, I don't have to clean up a darn thing, even if my server spilled something. If the chef didn't clean any of his mess, I WOULD have to clean it up unlike a restaurant situation where I don't have to clean up the mess I make. I would still pay him for COOKING since that is what he was HIRED to do. SEE THE HUGE DIFFERENCES HERE? |
mockingbird
New member
Username: mockingbird
Post Number: 9
Registered: 01-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 12:09 am: |
|
It's still my experience. My experience is that I walk into a clean establishment, eat off clean dishes with clean silverware. I don't care that I'm not being put on a pedestal with work being done for me and me alone, but I still get a clean dish, and thus my restaurant experience is better. It's really that simple, and I don't really know where you're confused here.
I wasn't asking you about payment. Is your hypothetical personal chef providing a service for you, by cooking your food and setting the table while you're out of the house, or isn't he? I'm-- listen carefully here-- not talking about tipping. I want to know what your definition of "service" is. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2487
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 09:08 am: |
|
""It is my opinion that it is still worth tipping on, because it's still work the server is doing so my experience can be better."
Do you understand though, that the cleaning the dishes beforehand would have been done NO MATTER WHO came in next? That means the server didn't clean those dishes for (((YOU))) PERSONALLY. They cleaned it for WHOEVER"
Ummmm, yes. You are the "whoever". |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 942
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 09:18 pm: |
|
teleburst
"It's from this bank that we make change. At the end of the day, the amount of our "cash on hand" after checkout (the money we get from the restaurant after we tip everyone out) minus our bank is what we make."
This is where I am 100% totally confused.
1. What do you mean "cash on hand?" Is this your own personal money? Also, if you only carry $20, that may not be enough for the entire shift if someone or some people have large bills they are paying with, so why only carry $20?
2. "(the money we get from the restaurant after we tip everyone out)"
What money do you get from the restaurant? You already get a paycheck, but cash, why do you get money from the restaurant? I though it was customers who tipped you and YOU had to tip out the bussers, hostess, food runners if any, and bartender through a percentage of sales from YOUR tips, isn't that right?
"minus our bank is what we make."
I am confused as to what you are referring to? Are you saying that at the end of the shift you get your bank back? So if you brought $20, you'd get back your $20 at the end of the shift?
I really just want to understand how this works and why people get shorted with their coin change?
Thank you very much for your time explaining this.
"Ummmm, yes. You are the "whoever".
I may be the "whoever", but do you see that the server cleaned those dishes for *ANYONE* next that may have came in, NOT for ****ME***** personally? I am the whoever, but they didn't do it for LORDS, they did it for the next person. Just because it's me, doesn't mean it's done for me personally. When someone tips, they are tipping based on PERSONALIZED service, NOT for dishes that have been cleaned REGARDLESS if I would have came in or not. That IS THE TRUTH, you cannot deny that. Those dishes got cleaned BEFORE they even knew (((I'D)))) be dining there, so why base part of the tip on something they aren't doing for "ME, LORDS?" They did it no matter WHO came in. |
mockingbird
New member
Username: mockingbird
Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 09:37 pm: |
|
We understand that the dishes weren't cleaned with the dishboy thinking "Oh, Lords is going to be in tonight! I better give her this specific dish clean!"
That doesn't mean that you don't get the benefit of eating off a clean dish. That doesn't mean your restaurant experience doesn't include a nice atmosphere and clean silverware.
And I think you really are the only one still talking about tipping.
Lords, I think this is what's happening. When you read "service", you think it means "service that is considered in the tip". When a lot of us type "service", we think, "general overall restaurant service." We are no longer talking about tips. We are counting cleaning as part of overall, general, service.
Your server clearing the table before you sit down is a service. A maid cleaning your house while you're out is a service. A hypothetical chef cooking for you is a service. Service, as opposed to a good.
Yet apparently, if a service is being done for the general public, and not YOU, it doesn't count. Apparently, if it's done in preparation for your arrival instead of while you're sitting there, it doesn't count.
Take five minutes, and stop thinking about money, and answer my question please.
Is a hypothetical personal chef cooking and getting things ready for you while you're out of your house performing a service? |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 943
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 10:09 pm: |
|
mockingbird
"It's still my experience. My experience is that I walk into a clean establishment, eat off clean dishes with clean silverware. I don't care that I'm not being put on a pedestal with work being done for me and me alone, but I still get a clean dish, and thus my restaurant experience is better. It's really that simple, and I don't really know where you're confused here."
I don't know where YOU are getting confused here. The cleaning being done BEFORE you had gotten seated wasn't done for ****YOU**** personally, just ONLY for "MOCKINGBIRD ONLY", it was done for *****ANYONE******* that would have been seated next, which means the server didn't clean the dishes or table for YOU personally. They did it because for the upkeep of the restaurant and for the next customer(which could be anyone). They weren't thinking when they were cleaning those dishes "I am going to clean these dishes for MOCKINGBIRD." They only thought of that it was required to do it by their manager for the upkeep of the restaurant REGARDLESS if someone doesn't come in again if the restaurant is almost ready to close let's say.
When I have restaurant service with my husband, the server is serving ((((((ME LORDS AND MY HUSBAND))))). They are doing things for ***US*** at our table. BEFORE and AFTER we are seated has NOTHING to do with the table or booth we get seated at as far as service and tipping goes. Tipping is for service YOU are receiving at the time you are seated at YOUR table. Someone else's table isn't part of your service. ONLY YOUR TABLE IS YOUR SERVICE. So when that server picks up dirty dishes from another table, unless you can smell dirty dishes, it shouldn't affect you, because you can look elsewhere. That IS a choice to look another way, like with the person or people you are with and if you are alone, you can look out a window or somewhere else in the restaurant.
"Is your hypothetical personal chef providing a service for you, by cooking your food and setting the table while you're out of the house, or isn't he? I'm-- listen carefully here-- not talking about tipping. I want to know what your definition of "service" is."
Service is the McDonald's cashier serving me food as well, but we don't tip them, do we? Service is a Wal-Mart cashier checking our store items out or giving us back our money on returns. Do we tip them?
I understand you keep saying "I'm not talking about tipping", but this is the entire discussion about it.
If I hired him to cook my food and set the table, YES, he did a "SERVICE" for me if that's what I hired him for, but deserving more than what he is supposed to get paid is NOT going to happen unless he actually serves the food in the plates such as to where I am having him put food on the plates and give us drinks with refills as well as if he makes alcoholic drinks.
The washing the dishes in a restaurant, the server IS getting paid by their EMPLOYER to do that type of stuff like sidework. WHY do you think they get paid at least $2.13/hr(here in Louisiana, that's a server's wage)? The CUSTOMER however has NOTHING to do with PAYING the server for any sidework such as washing dishes. Even if the server's employer didn't pay them a penny to do that, the CUSTOMER NEVER RECEIVES that service, because they aren't getting it at their table at the TIME they are actually seated. When I had refilled the napkin dispensers at the donut shop, I did that for the upkeep of the donut shop, NOT for someone personally. When I picked up their dirty coffee cups and paper plates or paper boats, that was ONLY for the upkeep of the restaurant and whatever customers came next. It wasn't for someone personally. Like I didn't clean something for a certain customer. I cleaned because I was REQUIRED to. I restocked because I was required to by my EMPLOYER. Those things have NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING to do with someone's service.
"I'm not being put on a pedestal with work being done for me and me alone,"
WHY, you are paying a SERVER for THEM and THEM ALONE on a PERSONAL LEVEL by paying ONLY THEM, using ONLY ((((YOUR)))) MONEY, so WHY not base your tip on "YOU AND YOU ALONE" considering it's YOUR MONEY that YOU WORKED HARD FOR? You are paying the server for THAT PARTICULAR server ALONE. I fail to see why you cannot get that your server cleaned those dishes no matter WHO decided to sit there? It happened to be you, SO WHAT? You get a clean dish, but it had NOTHING to do with doing it STRICKLY FOR YOU AND YOU ONLY!! It's your money, so shouldn't you tip based on what person does for YOU considering YOU are paying THEM personally. If YOU are paying them personally, shouldn't their service you provide be ONLY on a personal level?
"but I still get a clean dish, and thus my restaurant experience is better."
You get a clean dish, but you have got to understand, that would have been done because it was REQUIRED for them to do that by their EMPLOYER which they get PAID to do that when you weren't there. They are getting paid for that sidework through their *****EMPLOYER*****. They shouldn't get paid through you since they didn't do it for MOCKINGBIRD. They did it for their boss, the upkeep of the restaurant, and whomever ended up coming in. They didn't think about "Mockingbird is coming in, I will clean some dishes ESPECIALLY FOR MOCKINGBIRD." They were thinking about their boss that they didn't want to lose their job. They weren't doing it for you, believe me. Them cleaning your dishes after you left you will never get to experience those dishes again unless you just happen to come in when they close, then come in when they open, which is highly unlikely. Even if that happen, they cleaned it for the restaurant not to get roaches and rodents, not for YOU, MOCKINBIRD.
So you say your experience is better, but it would be cleaned REGARDLESS, because it's REQUIRED to clean. When I cleaned up at the donut shop the customer's dishes, I didn't once think, NOT ONCE about that I cleaned it for a particular customer that was going to come in or the customer that just left either. I cleaned it, because that was part of my JOB. I would have gotten fired if I didn't clean. I wasn't cleaning for a particular person though, that's why customers such as you shouldn't tip a particular server based on that since they weren't thinking of YOU. They were thinking of just customers in general(not you necessarily and their BOSS most importantly). Now do you understand that those clean dishes would have gotten cleaned anyways and that the particular server you end up getting let's say at Waffle House didn't clean them for YOU? They had to clean those dishes, because they could get FIRED if they didn't.
**** Washing dishes before or after you are seated isn't service, because Mockingbird didn't ask for dishes to be washed. In the chef situation, I ASKED for the cook to cook my food and set my table. GET THE DIFFERENCE HERE?*******
Tipping is about things that YOU personally asked for or they ask if you want. It's not for things that A. They already get paid for through their employer B. Their employer REQUIRES them to do when they are getting paid for that activity already by their employer
A chef that cooks my food and sets my table when I am not there was hired to do such a thing, but a server was NOT asked or hired or requested to clean those dirty dishes BEFORE or AFTER you came in. GET THE DIFFERENCE?
If the chef serves me the food, that's service to tip for. The chef cooking and setting the table was a service IN-OF-ITSELF that is ONLY paid for in a FEE for the service just like a mechanic or a McDonald's cashier.
I hope this clears things up.
(Message edited by Lords of acid on January 23, 2009) |
paid_up
Advanced Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 608
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 10:11 pm: |
|
No he is working. He is working for lords. Service is free, work is paid for. |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 944
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 23, 2009 - 10:17 pm: |
|
mockingbird
"That doesn't mean that you don't get the benefit of eating off a clean dish. That doesn't mean your restaurant experience doesn't include a nice atmosphere and clean silverware."
My experience may include clean dishes and atmosphere, BUT, it was done because of their BOSS, NOT because MOCKINBIRD was going to come in. In other words, I may get the benefit from it, but it really wasn't truly done for "ME" personally, it was done for the restaurant, because it's something that is REQUIRED to do.
"Apparently, if it's done in preparation for your arrival instead of while you're sitting there, it doesn't count."
It doesn't count in the tip, because their EMPLOYER pays them to do the sidework stuff, CUSTOMERS DON'T. We only pay for SERVICES RENDERED. We only got what we ASKED for and what happened WHEN we were acutually seated in the restaurant.
"Is a hypothetical personal chef cooking and getting things ready for you while you're out of your house performing a service?"
It's a service that is paid with a fee, but it's not a TIPPED type of service. I answered this more in depth in the post above. A McDonald's cashier gives me service, but we don't pay them for their service they provided us with. We don't tip the cashiers at stores either. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2493
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 10:39 am: |
|
"teleburst
"It's from this bank that we make change. At the end of the day, the amount of our "cash on hand" after checkout (the money we get from the restaurant after we tip everyone out) minus our bank is what we make."
This is where I am 100% totally confused.
1. What do you mean "cash on hand?" Is this your own personal money? Also, if you only carry $20, that may not be enough for the entire shift if someone or some people have large bills they are paying with, so why only carry $20?
2. "(the money we get from the restaurant after we tip everyone out)"
What money do you get from the restaurant? You already get a paycheck, but cash, why do you get money from the restaurant? I though it was customers who tipped you and YOU had to tip out the bussers, hostess, food runners if any, and bartender through a percentage of sales from YOUR tips, isn't that right?
"minus our bank is what we make."
I am confused as to what you are referring to? Are you saying that at the end of the shift you get your bank back? So if you brought $20, you'd get back your $20 at the end of the shift?
I really just want to understand how this works and why people get shorted with their coin change?
Thank you very much for your time explaining this".
#1. Yes, it's our own personal money brought from home.We are asked to bring $20 (or $25 in some places) because it's a reasonable amount to ask someone to always have on hand and it's usually enough to make change at least the first time. Sure, if someone has a $100 bill and a small check on the first cash table, we would have to go to the bar for change and there's no problem with that - we can get change from the bar whenever we need it, but it takes time because the bartender can't just drop what they're doing to give us change because they're waiting on people too. The restaurant doesn't expect us to carry a register's worth of money. But remember, the first time we get a cash table, we also get more cash to carry (the amount of the bill plus whatever tip we get). So our $20 bank actually grows with every cash check we get. Example, someone has a check that costs $45.68. They give me 3 $20s. I give them back $14.50 out of my bank. I lose .13 but I don't care because it's my choice and my money. They leave me $9. You'd think that now I only have $4.50 left in my bank, but no, I actually now have an extra $45.50 plus $9 "on hand". Plus, I probably got my quarters back and some or all of the ones that I gave out originally. Plus, now I have 3 $20s, right? Now I'm prepared to even break a $100 the next time around. None of this money gets turned into the restaurant until checkout time at the end of the shift.
2. The money I get from the restaurant is the difference between the amount of sales that I took money from in both cash and credit cards and the amount of cash I have on hand minus my bank. If I have no cash tables, where do you think I get the tips from? They are only written down on a credit card receipt, right? So the restaurant has to pay every server out of the cash that they started with from the safe as well as all cash taken in directly by bartenders at the bar and added to the register drawer. This can be thousands of dollars paid out to servers on a busy dinner shift. Plus, they had to pay out the lunch staff as well. So this is one reason why the restaurant doesn't issue a "bank" to each server.
Basically, it goes like this. I've got a wad of money in my pocket from my cash tables. I don't even care how much it is or have to keep track of it per se because the amount of my tips will become clear at the end of the night (but this is only true if I know exactly how much was in my pocket at the beginning of the shift). At checkout time, I run a report. It tracks all my sales and divides them into cash and credit card sales. This is really only important for my tax reporting sheet because the IRS wants to be able to see my cash sales in case of an audit (they already know my tip percentage for my credit card sales because there's a paper trail of that). However, the cash sales are important in the respect that they assume that I actually took in that amount of money directly from the guest. If I drop a $20 on the floor, the checkout doesn't care - it just means I'll have shorted myself because I still have to give that money back. But wait! I don't actually "pay back the restaurant" the cash that I've taken in because the restaurant still owes *me* money from the credit card tips. So, basically, all of the sales are totalled up and this is what I "owe" the restaurant. But since the restaurant has already captured the credit card payments and the restaurant still owes me the tips and I owe them any cash sales, it's taken care of by a simple reconciliation. In my current restaurant, we do this directly on the IRS reporting form, the TRAC sheet. First space is credit card sales including tips. Second space is cash sales (not including cash tips because the computer report that I'm pulling the numbers from doesn't know how my tips were and doesn't care). Third space is both figures added up. Fourth space is credit card tips, which are tracked on the report because when I closed out the credit card when I closed the table, it had me add in the tip. The report tracks it separately. And now, the TRAC sheet wants to know the total of the cash tips. This is where a server might try to cheat the system by underdeclaring (they might look at the cash sales and only claim 10% of that figure, figuring that the credit card tips will bring their total percentage up, which it will). In my case, I write in exactly how many cash tips I made. I'm able to do this because I have remembered each cash tip (I don't have to write them down anymore because I have so few cash tables at my current restaurant - when I had more cash sales in my previous restaurant, I actually had to write them down as I went - I usually just wrote it on the closed check). I then total credit card and cash tips to get a total. This is what I grossed. The next space is each of my three tipouts. I write them in using the percentages required (we tip out on gross tips, so it's easy - some restaurants require tipout on total sales, but that's easy as well). I then subtract the three tipouts in the final column and - voila! - that's what I made and what I declare on the computer when I clock out.
However, what I have to pay the restaurant or get paid by the restaurant won't necessarily match up with the gross tip figure minus the tipouts. Why you might ask. If you have cash sales, it messes with that figure because you have some of the money that is technically the restaurants (of course, they have some of yours as well - the credit card tips). So the report has a figure that tells you how much you owe the restaurant or that the restaurant owes you. If you only had credit card sales, then the figure will exactly match the gross tips figure and that's what they'll give you. If you have cash sales, the number will be lower. Depending on how many cash sales you have, you might actually owe the restaurant.
I pay my tipouts directly out of cash on hand if I have it (if I didn't have any cash sales, I have to pay after the restaurant gives me my money). I then go to the manager who either takes my money or gives me money. If I had a lot of cash sales or a big cash table or two, it's possible that I have to pay him or her (as I previously said). Of course, whatever money is left in my pocket should be exactly what I netted plus my original bank minus the .13 cents that I gave to my theoretical guest that I rounded up for. If I cheated on the cash tip declaration, obviously I'll have a little more money than I claimed (but I don't do that). There have been times when I've only owed the restaurant .05 due to the amount of cash that I took in during the shift, and, guess what, the restaurant doesn't ask for it, which is of course their right (they usually only ask for increments of .25 and sometimes they wave that off as well). You know all about registers. You get a leeway of a couple of bucks to account for small change "misshaps". I'm sure that your register was rarely exact down to the penny at the end of your donut shop shift and I'm sure that you had a couple of bucks of shortage possible before the manager made you pay the difference. I've also owed the restaurant $500 because I took in $800 in cash. Obviously, the restaurant wants *that* money, unlike the nickle.
Some restaurants have a different sort of checkout sheet, but it's basically the same thing. Total sales including credit card tips minus cash owed minus tipouts equals cash owed the restaurant or to to be paid by the restaurant to the server. Simple.
As to the bank, as you can see, it never goes anywhere. I don't "give it back" or anything. It just stays with me. That's why, in a busy restaurant with more than the average amount of cash sales like my previous restaurant (still only 90% of sales on average), it's sort of important to know how much your bank is. It's best not to bring in anything other than your bank because you really don't need to. You're going to walk out of the restaurant with lots of cash and if you come in with random amounts of cash, it's hard to tell what you made. If you start with a fixed amount, it's easy. But there are times when I have a bank of $100 if I haven't made a bank deposit. $20 is just a minimum. I might have $75 and there have been times when I've started the night with $200. In fact, I usually have far more than $20 myself. They key is to know exactly how much so that I can figure out what I actually made and declare that exact amount because, at the end of the night, if I subtract out my bank, the remaining money is exactly all the money I earned in tips. Of course, I still have the bank as well. You realize that, right?
If you have any further question, feel free to ask. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2495
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 11:16 am: |
|
PS, a $20 bank doesn't mean a $20 bill. It means a $10, a $5, 3 ones and two dollars worth of change. If you carry more than that, there's no problem. But you need at least that. And there are plenty of restaurants that randomly check during lineup to see whether you have a bank before you start because that's one of your "tools", just like a corkscrew, pens and a lighter.
In my current restaurant, they don't check and most people probably don't even carry a bank even though technically we're supposed to, because we have so few cash tables. I haven't had one in two weeks. I still carry a bank myself though because Murphy's Law dictates that you'll need to give change at the busiest part of the night. |
ohioborn
Junior Member
Username: ohioborn
Post Number: 94
Registered: 07-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 12:39 pm: |
|
Thanks for the detailed explanation on all that. Very informative! |
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 194
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 07:06 pm: |
|
Lords_of_Acid. In general a service is anything someone does for you, regardless of if you are there are not.
The vast majority of servers do not wash dishes at all.
Really as long as my customers see everything I do, including washing their dishes as a service and tip accordingly, it truly does not matter what you think about it, now does it?
Washing dishes is not side work. Side work is filling up various things such as sugar, napkins, etc. . It is making tea, salads and other things that will be needed by the next shift. To sum it up, at least were I work, side work is getting the store ready for the next shift, so they can just come in and start working.
paid_up I am a bit disapointed with you as you are letting lords win the battle of the trolls. |
paid_up
Advanced Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 612
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 07:52 pm: |
|
Hey it's equal rights. Besides you are not talking to me remember? |
realdeal
Member
Username: realdeal
Post Number: 196
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 08:37 pm: |
|
No paid_up that wasn't you, that was lords_of_ acid I said I would't respond to, but when a little girl asks a question, the mother in me came out, and I had to respond. I can understand why you thought I was talking to you also, but that was just for lords. I say you must fight to retain your status as king of the trolls!!! |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2496
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 10:08 am: |
|
"I may be the "whoever", but do you see that the server cleaned those dishes for *ANYONE* next that may have came in, NOT for ****ME***** personally? I am the whoever, but they didn't do it for LORDS, they did it for the next person. Just because it's me, doesn't mean it's done for me personally. When someone tips, they are tipping based on PERSONALIZED service, NOT for dishes that have been cleaned REGARDLESS if I would have came in or not. That IS THE TRUTH, you cannot deny that. Those dishes got cleaned BEFORE they even knew (((I'D)))) be dining there, so why base part of the tip on something they aren't doing for "ME, LORDS?" They did it no matter WHO came in".
But the fact remains that you are the "who". You can't even get this "personalized service" without clean dishes. You can't even get a table until your table is cleared and reset.
The point that you are ignoring is that it's a service requirement for every guest to have their plates cleared in a timely fashion. And, since people eat at different speeds, you can't say that one person "comes first". That's why you might see a table getting cleared at the same time that your own needs are being met. You can't wait on each table one by one (or at least you can't much of the time). The person who arrived before you might need a plate cleared and, if they went by your philosophy, you couldn't get your first drink until their plate was cleared. It's likely that your drink order is taken and the plates picked up on the way to the register. They were there first, right? You shouldn't have even had your drink ordered taken under your "stand in line" philosophy. However, most people realize that a server has to multi-task in order for everyone to get served in a timely manner.
That's the part that you can't understand since you refused to take a job as a server when it was offered to you. I guarantee that after 2 weeks working the floor, you would totally understand why it works the way that it does. If you refused to follow the standards of service, you wouldn't have a job anymore and you'd probably have guest complaints.
"When I have restaurant service with my husband, the server is serving ((((((ME LORDS AND MY HUSBAND)))))."
But that is only possible if there's a table to give you. That's only possible if you have a clean plate, clean glasses and clean silverware to eat off of and said table has been cleared and reset (which has to be done concurrently with the service to other tables).
"ONLY YOUR TABLE IS YOUR SERVICE. So when that server picks up dirty dishes from another table, unless you can smell dirty dishes, it shouldn't affect you, because you can look elsewhere. That IS a choice to look another way, like with the person or people you are with and if you are alone, you can look out a window or somewhere else in the restaurant".
But it must be done, just as your plates must be cleared while others are eating.
" "Is your hypothetical personal chef providing a service for you, by cooking your food and setting the table while you're out of the house, or isn't he? I'm-- listen carefully here-- not talking about tipping. I want to know what your definition of "service" is."
Service is the McDonald's cashier serving me food as well, but we don't tip them, do we? Service is a Wal-Mart cashier checking our store items out or giving us back our money on returns. Do we tip them"?
No, because the total wage of those employees is included in the price of the product.
"If I hired him to cook my food and set the table, YES, he did a "SERVICE" for me if that's what I hired him for, but deserving more than what he is supposed to get paid is NOT going to happen unless he actually serves the food in the plates such as to where I am having him put food on the plates and give us drinks with refills as well as if he makes alcoholic drinks".
Exactly! Just as you must have food on the plates and glasses to put the drinks in. That recycling of smallwares is essential to you getting food and drink. They don't have enough dishes to serve the entire restaurant for a whole shift and then clean it all at once at the end of the meal. Your plate likely came off of table 42's meal that was finished 20 minutes ago.
" I fail to see why you cannot get that your server cleaned those dishes no matter WHO decided to sit there"?
And I fail to see why you can't see that you are the "who".
"You get a clean dish, but you have got to understand, that would have been done because it was REQUIRED..."
Let me finish that sentence properly:
"...in order for you to receive the service that you expect". Without this "sidework", you don't get napkins, sugar packets, silverware, plates, glasses, tablecloths, tea, coffee, and virtually everything that allows you to dine in a restaurant. Your tip helps pay for part of that, since the restaurant doesn't hire people at full wage to do the "sidework". Yes, the 2.13 an hour is part of paying for it too.
"They were thinking of just customers in general(not you necessarily and their BOSS most importantly). Now do you understand that those clean dishes would have gotten cleaned anyways and that the particular server you end up getting let's say at Waffle House didn't clean them for YOU? They had to clean those dishes, because they could get FIRED if they didn't".
Fired because you wouldn't have been able to be served and you'd probably be mad. Why you can't see this, I don't know.
""Is a hypothetical personal chef cooking and getting things ready for you while you're out of your house performing a service?"
It's a service that is paid with a fee, but it's not a TIPPED type of service".
Yes. That's why we tip. Because it's part of the pay scheme of the restaurant. It completes the wage and brings it up to legal standards. The tip helps pay for sidework as well, since you can't legally pay someone 2.13 an hour simply to do nothing but vacuum the restaurant, refill sugar caddies, polish silverwear, drag glasses and plates from dishland, make coffee and tea, clear plates, reset tables, etc. It's illegal. |
kris
New member
Username: kris
Post Number: 21
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 01:14 am: |
|
Okay, I am going to agree to something that lords has said. I do not tip based upon the fact that that I am receiving clean dishes nor that they will have to wash my dirty dishes when I am finished. That is part of the restaurant's services but I don't know of anyone who bases the gratuity on that. |
neecey93
Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 192
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 02:26 pm: |
|
Kris said:
That is part of the restaurant's services but I don't know of anyone who bases the gratuity on that.
Neecey said:
Well it's been brought up to itemize all that goes into the broad description of service the tip is suppossed to be for. It's gets hairy when the "service" gets itemized like that and the debate gets more and more ridiculous on both sides. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2501
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 04:20 pm: |
|
No, it was brought up because she doesn't believe that *clearing* dirty plates is part of service. Surely, both of you factor in whether your plates are cleared into the tip, right? If the salad plates sit while you're eating your entrees and dirty silverware never gets removed from the table, surely you'd consider this less than ideal service, right? It would probably affect the tip.
The clean plate thing came in simply to point out that the clean plates that you receive were dirty plates on someone else's table a few minutes ago. Plates that have to be picked up by someone. |
paid_up
Advanced Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 614
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 08:51 pm: |
|
Gee thanks teleburst for explaining something I have already read. |
kelly
Member
Username: kelly
Post Number: 219
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 09:28 pm: |
|
I agree with Teleburst on this one. Clearing dirty plates/silverware is definitely part of the service you expect to receive in a restaurant.
Surely this isn't really a question? |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 945
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 09:37 pm: |
|
teleburst
THANK YOU VERY MUCH for spending time to write all of that, but that was confusing some. I never thought about that you'd have the cash from the customers, because I thought that went to the bar's register right after the sale, NOT YOU. I didn't know you would have this money onhand on you. I just thought you'd have to bring it to the bar everytime you had cash.
WHY would you keep the cash on you and not give it to the bartender since it's the restaurant's money? WHY would you wait until the end of the shift to do that?
The most important question I would like an answer to is do you actually give your $20 away for free or do you get it back your original bank amount, let's stick with $20? I want to know if YOUR $20 goes to the restaurant?
When you said this: "Of course, whatever money is left in my pocket should be exactly what I netted plus my original bank minus the .13 cents that I gave to my theoretical guest that I rounded up for", does that mean that you are truly getting your original bank back from your manager, which that's what it sounds like? Also, WHY isn't it ok for the server to just get $20 from the bar instead of doing that? I know you said this: "But the main reason is that it's much easier for everyone from an accounting standpoint not to have to worry about "paying back the restaurant" at the end of the night" and this "It's an unnecessary bookkeeping complication", but I find it hard to believe it's easier for the SERVER? It may be easier for the RESTAURANT, but for the server, I find it a bit confusing if you ask me with bringing your own money from home. I feel the restaurant should supply you with the change you need just as you would get change in a register situation at a store or McDonald's or the donut shop I worked for.
"(they usually only ask for increments of .25 and sometimes they wave that off as well). You know all about registers. You get a leeway of a couple of bucks to account for small change "misshaps"."
YES, it was like either $2 or $3, can't remember, that the register could be short and they wouldn't take it out of our check, anything over that though, got taken out of our check.
You add up each cash sale(I assume the register actually does this, because at the donut shop, we had what we called Z-OUT, that printed out the total sales of the shift) and YOU give the exact amount to the restaurant at the end that you owe, is that right, am I understanding this?
I also some other questions: Do you tip out the bartender based on any bar drinks(even the non-alcoholic bar drinks such as a shirley temple that a bartender does have to make), based on solely on bar sales in the entire restaurant? *OR* Do you tip out based on all food and any drink sales? What percentage do you tip out?
Do you tip out food and soft drinks based on sales to the hostess, busser, and any food runners if there are any or is bar sales including as well in tipping out those people out of curiosity?
If I and my husband get just bar alcoholic drinks and dessert as well as 2 soft drinks, which the check ends up being $30, does the bartender make most of the tip here? Let's say I leave $6 which is 20%, how much about would the server actually make off of me after tipping out? Would they make at least $4?
"But the fact remains that you are the "who". You can't even get this "personalized service" without clean dishes. You can't even get a table until your table is cleared and reset."
It doesn't matter that I ended up being the "whoever" , because they didn't do it for ME, they did it for ANYONE that ended up there. When we tip, we tip OUR SERVER, NOT if we had a long wait for a table for instance. That occurs BEFORE I got seated, so how would you like me to take it out on YOU that I waited an hour for a table? You wouldn't like it and it wouldn't be fair, right? There's no difference in this example and getting clean dishes at your table that were cleaned BEFORE you even got seated or BEFORE you received those dishes even if they are being cleaned before you get your entrée.
The fact remains as you say that I can't get table service without it being cleared, which is true, which means that I am not getting the proper table service until the table has been cleared for me. The dishes that are to be cleaned may or may not end up being mine. HOW would I know the difference and I shouldn't expect to know HOW I got my clean dishes? That part DOESN'T matter. What matters is that I got clean dishes at my table no matter who ended up cleaning them or if they were dishes that were cleaned a half an hour ago when I wasn't seated yet or even the day before even.
NO ONE in the right mind tips on dishes being cleaned. There are some stupid idiots out there that tip based on if they left a big mess, because they feel guilty, but the fact is, the service is over with, so there's no service for the customer to tip for since they won't benefit from having that table cleaned off since the won't be there anymore.
"you couldn't get your first drink until their plate was cleared."
OF COURSE I could. What does a GLASS have to do with a plate being cleaned, huh? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
"It's likely that your drink order is taken and the plates picked up on the way to the register. They were there first, right? You shouldn't have even had your drink ordered taken under your "stand in line" philosophy. However, most people realize that a server has to multi-task in order for everyone to get served in a timely manner."
Dirty dishes don't tip people nor do they have feelings, so NO, the dishes weren't "FIRST", because they aren't live human beings. A person's drink order is more important than those dirty dishes. Everyone doesn’t get served in a timely manner when they multi-task, because the FIRST person out the group gets the shaft to wait the longest UNFAIRLY so. Think about if you got me and my husband's coke orders. If you worried about picking up dishes first, there goes a drop some in the tip for making inanimate objects more important than our thirst considering those dishes won't tip you, but WE WILL. Also, you wouldn't be thinking of our TIME or FEELINGS by mult-tasking. You'd be better off leaving those dirty dishes alone until you got us our drinks. If we weren't ready to order yet, THEN you could grab those dirty dishes. Cleaning up is LAST, REAL LIVE HUMAN BEINGS THAT WILL TIP YOU COME FIRST!!
"That's the part that you can't understand since you refused to take a job as a server when it was offered to you."
NEVER was offered a server job. Just went to fill out applications, talked to a manager at Olive Garden, that's all.
"I guarantee that after 2 weeks working the floor, you would totally understand why it works the way that it does."
I know the way it works, we get the shaft if we are first. Life is unfair, it really is.
"If you refused to follow the standards of service, you wouldn't have a job anymore and you'd probably have guest complaints. "
Actually, I would have fewer complaints, because people would have their food and refills MUCH FASTER than worrying about dirty dishes being my top priority.
"That's only possible if you have a clean plate, clean glasses and clean silverware to eat off of and said table has been cleared and reset (which has to be done concurrently with the service to other tables)."
SO WHAT, we don't tip based on how long we waited or was quoted from the hostess or host, do we? We don't tip based on what happens before or after we are seated. Let's say realdeal cleans my plate for my waffle DURING the time I am her customer. Even though, I NEVER once asked for her to clean a plate for me, NOR does anyone in their right mind CARE HOW it got cleaned. I don't care if the make me bring my own plate, for real, even a paper plate. I tip based on what SERVICE that I WANT, NOT things I NEVER once asked for or care about.
"But it must be done, just as your plates must be cleared while others are eating. "
That's still not something to base a tip on if you see your server clearing plates off another table. To me, that shows they are only thinking about the people waiting for a table, NOT their CURRENT CUSTOMERS. If we waited for a table, they should wait too in the lobby just as we did.
"No, because the total wage of those employees is included in the price of the product."
That's my point, that's WHY mockingbird's chef example was stupid. The price I would pay a chef that would cook for me would be in the price of the service. If he would serve me the food on plates and give me drinks, then he would be doing MORE than I asked for, which deserves more money, but if he just cooked for me, he deserves the amount he was hired to do, that's it.
"Exactly! Just as you must have food on the plates and glasses to put the drinks in. That recycling of smallwares is essential to you getting food and drink. They don't have enough dishes to serve the entire restaurant for a whole shift and then clean it all at once at the end of the meal. Your plate likely came off of table 42's meal that was finished 20 minutes ago. "
It doesn't matter if my plate came off the table that's next to me, SO WHAT!! I care about MY TABLE ONLY when I tip, NOT what came off of some other table or how they came about giving me a clean dish.
"And I fail to see why you can't see that you are the "who". "
I CAN see I am the "WHO", but you cannot see that it's NOT "PERSONAL" like a tip is. I tip let's say realdeal. That's PERSONALIZED paying. Realdeal didn't clean those dishes for ME, she did it because she was REQUIRED to and for anyone that may have came in, NOT NECESSARILY ME personally. Realdeal didn't think to herself "I am going to clean this especially for LORDS." She thought to herself "I have to clean these dishes, so I can keep my job, regardless if they have any other customers that come in or not." They aren't cleaning it especially for me, they are cleaning it because they have to and for anyone. I tip based on service that is done PERSONALLY for ME, NOT that they were going to clean that dish if I ended up not being there. Get that? That dish would have been cleaned whether I was there or not. Don't you get that?
"...in order for you to receive the service that you expect". Without this "sidework", you don't get napkins, sugar packets, silverware, plates, glasses, tablecloths, tea, coffee, and virtually everything that allows you to dine in a restaurant. Your tip helps pay for part of that, since the restaurant doesn't hire people at full wage to do the "sidework". Yes, the 2.13 an hour is part of paying for it too. "
I understand that, but that stuff would be done NO MATTER WHAT OR WHO CAME IN, therefore, it's not service by a long, long shot!!
"Fired because you wouldn't have been able to be served and you'd probably be mad. Why you can't see this, I don't know. "
I can see this, but if I couldn't get served, the manager would have to start cleaning dishes in order for business to run smoothly, which means, it's still not service. They would get fired, because the owners and managers see dollar signs that for every customer they get a sale. They don't care about if we have to wait longer for something, get real!! If I wouldn't get served, I'd take my business elsewhere. It doesn't matter what happens BEFORE I get seated, WHY can't you understand that? I can't receive service from a server if I am not seated yet, can I, unless I go to the bar? Do you think it's right for me to tip based on my hour long wait that the hostess quoted me 45 mins.? OF COURSE NOT, so WHY dishes that were cleaned BEFORE I arrived have ANYTHING to do with my service? Stuff that happens before or after has nothing to do with service, NOTHING. |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 946
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 09:42 pm: |
|
realdeal
"Washing dishes is not side work. Side work is filling up various things such as sugar, napkins, etc. . It is making tea, salads and other things that will be needed by the next shift. To sum it up, at least were I work, side work is getting the store ready for the next shift, so they can just come in and start working."
You just CONTRADICTED YOURSELF HERE by saying that washing dishes isn't sidework, yet, when you wash dishes at the end of the night's shift(meaning close to closing time), you ARE getting ready for the next day, aren't you? When you wash a dish, it's just like having to fill up more ice or milk DURING a shift. Washing dishes IS 100% MOST DEFINATELY SIDE WORK and NOT A TIPPABLE THING TO CONSIDER EVER, EVER, EVER!!
(Message edited by Lords of acid on January 26, 2009) |
neecey93
Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 194
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 09:35 am: |
|
No, it was brought up because she doesn't believe that *clearing* dirty plates is part of service. Surely, both of you factor in whether your plates are cleared into the tip, right? If the salad plates sit while you're eating your entrees and dirty silverware never gets removed from the table, surely you'd consider this less than ideal service, right? It would probably affect the tip.
Neecey said:
It's never really a factor for me. I usually just shift plates around to find space if necessary. I'm usually too involved in conversation to stop and get annoyed although I really don't think about it or notice one way or another. So I'm pretty neutral on the topic of clearing away dishes. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2506
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 12:23 pm: |
|
"THANK YOU VERY MUCH for spending time to write all of that, but that was confusing some. I never thought about that you'd have the cash from the customers, because I thought that went to the bar's register right after the sale, NOT YOU. I didn't know you would have this money onhand on you. I just thought you'd have to bring it to the bar everytime you had cash".
There's no time to do this. The bartender doesn't have time to be a full-time cashier, even in these days of fewer cash tables.
"WHY would you keep the cash on you and not give it to the bartender since it's the restaurant's money? WHY would you wait until the end of the shift to do that"?
Because that's the way it's set up. It saves time for you because I don't have to wait for a bartender. There's no need for the restaurant to get their money until the end of the night. Most of the time, it's my money anyway, unless there are so many cash tables that I actually owe the restaurant at the end of the night. Plus, it's much simpler for everyone to do all of the cash accounting at one time instead of doing a bunch of little transactions. We still have to do an accounting at the end of the night because of the credit card transactions. The restaurant doesn't "need" the money in my pocket during the shift in order to do business. Bottom line, there's just no need.
"The most important question I would like an answer to is do you actually give your $20 away for free or do you get it back your original bank amount, let's stick with $20? I want to know if YOUR $20 goes to the restaurant"?
No, of course not. It's an "extra" $20 over and above what I made. If I made $130 in tips after tipout, I'd have $150 in my pocket. If I forgot to bring a bank, I'd only have $130. You're thinking too hard about this bank. I brought it with me and I take it out. It doesn't show up on any report and the restaurant doesn't really know from a financial aspect that I even have it.
"When you said this: "Of course, whatever money is left in my pocket should be exactly what I netted plus my original bank minus the .13 cents that I gave to my theoretical guest that I rounded up for", does that mean that you are truly getting your original bank back from your manager, which that's what it sounds like"?
The bank never goes to the manager. It really doesn't exist in a real sense for the restaurant. It's just extra money in my pocket. It's no different than the money that I have in my wallet, except that it's used to make change on the first transaction. But it's not *part* of that transaction at all. It's just "seed money". And that money stays with me the whole time (or comes back to me in the case of a very small single cash check. Let's say that someone buys a $2 drink and pays with a $20. I give them back $18. Now I"m "over" $2. I've got an extra $2 of the restaurant's money. Say that it's my only cash check. After I do all of my paperwork (and let's leave tipouts out of this one), even though I might have had $1000 worth of credit card sales and $200 in tips that I haven't seen yet, only $2 was in cash. So the restaurant is only going to owe me $198 and that's what I walk with. But I still have my original $20, only it's in the form of a $20 bill. All of my original $20 in 10s, 5s, 1s and change was taken in exchange for the $20 by the guest.
"Also, WHY isn't it ok for the server to just get $20 from the bar instead of doing that"?
You mean at the beginning of the night? I thought I had explained that. It would mean having to have more money on hand than necessary. It would mean doing 10 - 15 paid outs that aren't necessary. It adds an extra step to the close out procedure that isn't necessary.
"I know you said this: "But the main reason is that it's much easier for everyone from an accounting standpoint not to have to worry about "paying back the restaurant" at the end of the night" and this "It's an unnecessary bookkeeping complication", but I find it hard to believe it's easier for the SERVER"?
Believe me, it is. We don't have to line up for our $20 from the register. We don't have to worry about adding it back into the report at the end of the night.
"It may be easier for the RESTAURANT, but for the server, I find it a bit confusing if you ask me with bringing your own money from home".
It's only confusing if the server doesn't know how much money they start with. And the only thing it affects is the *knowledge* of how much the server actually made. It doesn't affect the actual amount of money that the server makes. The server will make the exact same amount of money whether they start with zero or they start with $1000 in their pocket.
"I feel the restaurant should supply you with the change you need just as you would get change in a register situation at a store or McDonald's or the donut shop I worked for".
See, that's the thing. You know nothing about how a restaurant runs. You can't conceive of the difference between a counter situation and a restaurant situation. Diners have a cashier, so the two or three waitresses don't need a bank. They just pocket their tips. The guest pays at the register. The point of exchange of money at the donut shop was the register and you were the cashier. At the restaurant, we take payment for the guest in lieu of a cashier. If we need to make more change than we have, then we go to the keeper of the cashier, the bartender. But it's not confusing at all to any server who's been through more than a handful of checkouts as to how the system works.
"You add up each cash sale(I assume the register actually does this, because at the donut shop, we had what we called Z-OUT, that printed out the total sales of the shift) and YOU give the exact amount to the restaurant at the end that you owe, is that right, am I understanding this"?
Yes, I basically run a Z for me, so I'm like a virtual register. However, the "exact amount" that you refer to isn't exactly what I "owe" them. The report reconciles all of my sales, whether they be cash or credit. I will either owe the restaurant money or they will owe *me* money. If I owe them money, it's because I've got all of my tips already through the money that I've received from guests paying their checks. If they owe me money then they give it to me. It's possible that they only owe me half of my tips because I've got the other half in my pocket already from the cash sales that I had. If I only had $100 worth of cash tables but I had $200 in cash and credt card tips, the restaurant will only give me $100 because I've already got $100 in my pocket.
"I also some other questions: Do you tip out the bartender based on any bar drinks(even the non-alcoholic bar drinks such as a shirley temple that a bartender does have to make), based on solely on bar sales in the entire restaurant? *OR* Do you tip out based on all food and any drink sales? What percentage do you tip out"?
It varies from restaurant to restaurant. I tip out 5% on total tips, even if I don't sell a single drink. It tends to even out over time because there are plenty of times where they're doing many many drinks for me. In my previous restaurant, I tipped out on alcohol sales minus wine (because we got out own wine and poured it tableside). That was 10% of all alcohol sales.
"Do you tip out food and soft drinks based on sales to the hostess, busser, and any food runners if there are any or is bar sales including as well in tipping out those people out of curiosity"?
I tip out 20% to the server assistants. This is on everything. We don't tip out the hostess and we don't have food runners. We run all food ourselves (server assistants aren't allowed to run food or bar drinks).
"If I and my husband get just bar alcoholic drinks and dessert as well as 2 soft drinks, which the check ends up being $30, does the bartender make most of the tip here"?
In my restaurant, the breakdown would be:
Assuming a $6 tip, the bar would get .30 (although I'd just give them a buck). The server assistant would get $1.20, and I'd round down and just give *them* a buck )see how rounding tends to average out somewhat)? So, out of that $6, I'd keep $4. We have a "dish lady" who gets 3% when she works, but I kept her out of this discussion because her tip would be so negligable as to not really exist (but if you want to be exact, her take would be .18). I'm basing the figures on the one single table. Obviously, when it is part of a bunch of other tables, then the figures that I quoted (the exact ones) just become part of the total and the rounding is done over a much larger amount of money ($38 instead of $37.75 or $38.40).
Let's say I leave $6 which is 20%, how much about would the server actually make off of me after tipping out? Would they make at least $4? |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2507
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 12:25 pm: |
|
"It's never really a factor for me. I usually just shift plates around to find space if necessary. I'm usually too involved in conversation to stop and get annoyed although I really don't think about it or notice one way or another. So I'm pretty neutral on the topic of clearing away dishes".
I'm surprised that you're happy sitting at a dirty table. I'm also surprised that the only service you perceive is taking the order, dropping the food, dropping the check and not being a bitch. |
neecey93
Member
Username: neecey93
Post Number: 197
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 12:32 pm: |
|
Teleburst said:
I'm surprised that you're happy sitting at a dirty table. I'm also surprised that the only service you perceive is taking the order, dropping the food, dropping the check and not being a bitch.
Neecey said:
I keep it simple. |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 947
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 09:49 pm: |
|
teleburst
THANK you for clearing my questions up.
"Assuming a $6 tip, the bar would get .30 (although I'd just give them a buck). The server assistant would get $1.20, and I'd round down and just give *them* a buck )see how rounding tends to average out somewhat)?"
If I were the server assistant, I wouldn't let you short me 20 cents personally. I don't work to be shorted. 20 cents is 20 cents. It's damn near close to a quarter and that adds up overtime. Now, if you agreed to give me 20 cents over the next time we work together, I can deal with that, but to not pay me the money you owe me would be morally wrong in my book.
As far as the bar goes, you are ok with losing 70 cents? I would only pay them EXACTLY what I would owe them. There's no way I would lose A CENT of my money if I were a server. I find money on the ground all the time. It adds up. WHY short your assistant when you could have easily given her a quarter or an extra dollar? You gave an extra dollar for 30 cents, WHY 10 LESS cents means you are going to short one of your co-workers? That makes no sense and it's not FAIR or RIGHT. WHY not just give them what you owe them by not being lazy and just go to the bartender at the end of the shift to exchange change OR even better, have change on you so you can give the exact amount you owe? If I worked with you as a server, I'd tell my manager you would be shorting me. At the donut shop, we had to split tips evenly, which once in a while, someone would take the extra penny, then the next time, the next person would get it in the same situation. During 6a.m.-7a.m., they'd have just me and someone else working, then after 7a.m.(usually on weekends, more workers would come in, meaning anything we made between 6a.m.-7a.m. would ONLY be mine and the other co-worker's money, NOT the workers that were just coming on. I would even split a dime if I had it between me and her. She'd get 5 cents, I'd get 5 cents. If it was only a nickle, one of us would have the extra penny. I made EVERY PENNY I could. That's the way it's morally supposed to be. NO ONE IS SUPPOSED TO GET SHORTED, unless of course you are splitting something like 5 cents where you cannot split it equally.
Rounding averages out for YOU, NOT for them, unless of course if you are the bartender in this situation, you just MADE more money and didn't have to deal with 70 cents of change. So the bartender got a WIN-WIN situation from you unlike your assistant. Why be so self-centered about your money? Their money is JUST AS IMPORTANT as yours is, so WHY short someone over a 10 cent difference? WHY not just bring a ROLL of quarters on you so you wouldn't be shorting someone 20 cents? If you want to take the loss, that's your stupidity, I would NEVER do such a thing unless it can't be helped like the uneven penny situation. I just don't get WHY you aren't FAIR to your co-workers that the bartender gets to make more money off of you, but your assistant gets shafted? WHY round? You will say it's easier, but if you are shorting people, that's just wrong no matter how harder it is to do things right. WHY not just do things right to begin with? Would you pay your assistant at a later time the 20 cents you would owe her or would you just decide it's yours?
(Message edited by lords of acid on January 27, 2009) |
kris
New member
Username: kris
Post Number: 22
Registered: 01-2002
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 28, 2009 - 12:44 am: |
|
I'm sorry you misunderstood what I said. Earlier in the thread I did talk about pre-bussing and if it wasn't done, I'd consider deducting from the tip.
But then the conversation seemed to talk about the before and after of a dining experience: having clean plates to start and them cleaning your table after you are finished and left.
I had said that, yes, part of a restaurant experience is not having to do dishes. It seemed that Lords was trying to say that gratuity is not based on the fact that her table will be cleaned and dishes washed when dinner is over. I agree with that. The washing of my dishes is not factored into any gratuity.
Perhaps, this is a confusing thread and it doesn't help that Lords posts are hard for me to read. |
paid_up
Advanced Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 618
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 28, 2009 - 08:49 am: |
|
Hey lords, teleburst is always willing to explain to you what you just wrote. The great thing is you don't even have to ask him to do it. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2510
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 28, 2009 - 10:32 am: |
|
"If I were the server assistant, I wouldn't let you short me 20 cents personally. I don't work to be shorted. 20 cents is 20 cents. It's damn near close to a quarter and that adds up overtime. Now, if you agreed to give me 20 cents over the next time we work together, I can deal with that, but to not pay me the money you owe me would be morally wrong in my book".
Well that's just tough. Rounding averages out over time. Heck, even the IRS lets you round figures on the 1040. It's a standard practice, and there's another thing. Server assistants look at you weird if you give them change. It's all round amounts, everytime.
I've got to go to work now, so I'll read the rest of your post and respond later (if my faltering computer cooperates)... |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2511
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 28, 2009 - 03:07 pm: |
|
OK, shift is over and I read the rest of the post.
Yes, I am just fine losing .70 out of $200. Is that all right with you? Can I help you?
What you don't understand is that rounding averages out if you always round. It's the law of averages. Plus, if you were my server assistant and you bitched about .20, not only would I stop greasing you the extra $2 - 5 bucks extra that I give you (yes, I give EXTRA), but I'd tell the other server assistants and you would be made fun of by them for quite a while. If fact, I discussed this very thing with my server assistant today. You know what he said? "We don't need people like that working around here".
Feel free to pick money up off the ground. That's fine. I don't have a problem with that.
And I'm not being lazy by not giving change. They don't want it. And I'm giving them extra money anyway (the server assistants, that is - the guest always gets rounded up). I know that this would never occur to you to do it, to reward good service with a little extra money. That's because you're too busy whipping out your calculator so that you don't lose a damn penny. |
paid_up
Advanced Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 619
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 28, 2009 - 05:57 pm: |
|
As it is by telebursts law. It has been said so it shall be written |
lords_of_acid
Advanced Member
Username: lords_of_acid
Post Number: 948
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 28, 2009 - 09:44 pm: |
|
teleburst
"Well that's just tough. Rounding averages out over time. Heck, even the IRS lets you round figures on the 1040. It's a standard practice, and there's another thing. Server assistants look at you weird if you give them change. It's all round amounts, everytime."
That's mean. What a CRUEL and UNCARING person you are to say "that's just tough."
SO WHAT if the IRS lets us wrong, SO WHAT, WHAT does that have to do with paying INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE'S MONEY to them that they are supposed to get, that they have EARNED?
"Yes, I am just fine losing .70 out of $200."
Can you imagine how much money you lose by paying over? I bet you lose a lot more than you realize.
"not only would I stop greasing you the extra $2 - 5 bucks extra that I give you (yes, I give EXTRA),"
I'd rather just get what I have EARNED as far as the EXACT AMOUNT goes than to short me one day and keep up with what you owe me the next time. That's too much having to keep track and confusing.
If you would give more, I wouldn't give more. That's you that wants to throw your money down the drain. I wouldn't do it, NO WAY!!
"but I'd tell the other server assistants and you would be made fun of by them for quite a while."
I'd be the one with the MORE MONEY and YOU'D be the LOSER with the less money that you gave OVER. SO if anything, I'd have the last laugh, because I know that anyone that pays over the amount when they don't have to is just plain stupid. I am not saying you are stupid in other ways, because you aren't, but in this situation, you are.
If anything, if I was the type of person to make fun of someone(which I am not), I would laugh at you for throwing your money away like an idiot. To me, that's just plain stupid.
"If fact, I discussed this very thing with my server assistant today. You know what he said? "We don't need people like that working around here"."
You know why? They don't want things to be FAIR or MORALLY RIGHT. I don't need an UNFAIR employee that is going to short me MY money. I don't expect overages and if you gave me over, I'd give it back, because I don't want to owe you a favor later. I'd rather just do things the way they are supposed to go, with giving the CORRECT, EXACT amount to the co-workers. If I owed someone 63 cents, you bet I'd only give them 63 cents. I wouldn't give them just 2 quarters, nor would I give them just 60 cents, nor would I give them a buck. They are owed that, that's what they SHOULD get. It's only fair.
"They don't want it."
That's them LAZY idiots that don't want to carry around and count change, but change adds up, so I would want EVERY PENNY. If you would short me, I would report you to the manager if I worked with you. If the manager wouldn't budge, I'd quit on the spot and look for another job. I don't need someone taking MY MONEY.
"I know that this would never occur to you to do it, to reward good service with a little extra money. That's because you're too busy whipping out your calculator so that you don't lose a damn penny."
They are getting "REWARDED" by what is required to tip out. I won't reward someone more, because that's MY MONEY I EARNED, NOT THEIRS!! |
gbowen99
Intermediate Member
Username: gbowen99
Post Number: 409
Registered: 06-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2009 - 10:53 am: |
|
This falls into the same category as the "Oh I thought you handed me a $20 and not a $50. My fault" scam. I have had this happen more times than I like to recall. Especially at bars the bartender hands you a bunch of ones and fives. Make sure to recount the money every time. |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2515
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2009 - 12:27 pm: |
|
"I'd rather just get what I have EARNED as far as the EXACT AMOUNT goes than to short me one day and keep up with what you owe me the next time. That's too much having to keep track and confusing".
That's because you don't work in the industry. A server assistant would rather be rewarded with 5 extra dollars than to worry about .30, especially since, just as often, they'll get .40 from a rounding up. In fact, two of my three rounds last night were rounding UP.
You have a very peculiar sense of "right and wrong".
"I won't reward someone more, because that's MY MONEY I EARNED, NOT THEIRS!!"
And there it is. You would never be part of a restaurant family. You don't understand it, therefore you have no basis on which to judge it.
""but I'd tell the other server assistants and you would be made fun of by them for quite a while."
I'd be the one with the MORE MONEY and YOU'D be the LOSER with the less money that you gave OVER. SO if anything, I'd have the last laugh, because I know that anyone that pays over the amount when they don't have to is just plain stupid".
No, you'd be the server assistant out the door and I'd still be merrily working at the restaurant. You'd be the server assistant that no server wanted to work with and no server assistant would help. You'd be the server assistant that I, as a server, wouldn't ever help reset tables because, since you're such an "absolutist", I'm not going to help you do your job. That's *your* job, not mine I'm not going to refill water glasses for you, your fellow server assistants aren't going to help you with your sidework when you fall behind, etc. You'd basically be blackballed out of the restaurant, plus, without help, you'd never completely be able to do your job because it requires *teamwork*. How's *that* for "right and wrong"? The restaurant is a very political place. Plus, there's the simple fact that it's money earned through the good work of the SA. Sure, the tipout takes care of that, but I, and most servers, like to provide a little extra incentive to work that much harder for us, plus we just plain like to show our appreciation, because, let's face it, that's we do ourselves - we want to get that "extra" appreciation from our guests too. Once again, it's good karma.
I think that the basic problem that you have is that you have never seemed to work with a large staff of people. I can tell you that it's a lot different than working with only a handful of people. So, I'd be careful about saying what you would or wouldn't do if you were thrust into such a situation.
PS, we just let an SA go after a month because he didn't get with the program. He came from another one of our stores as a server and, because the role of an SA is slightly different there, he refused to grasp what an SA has to do in *our* restaurant (and what a server has to do for that matter) to get the job done. To become a server in our restaurant, you have to be a server assistant for a while, but it's not an automatic lock that you'll become a server, no matter whether you're a transfer from another restaurant or you have managed restaurants and been a server for 20 years.
Frankly, I think you'd have a hard time getting that first month in at any restaurant, unless you completely changed your mind set.
(Message edited by teleburst on January 29, 2009)
(Message edited by teleburst on January 29, 2009) |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1092
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2009 - 12:31 pm: |
|
Sorry Lords, but bottom line is you do not know how it works on being a server with table side service. Until you get the experience, you will NEVER understand what we are trying to explain. Your quotes of honesty, rights, wrongs and fairness flies out the door when customers are hounding you for food and drinks. You try to explain logic on things you would do in a pefect world, but in a restaurant that is busy, things don't fall into place so perfectly.
As long as service assistants agree with our practice, as long as customers are happy, and as long as management is not being taken advantage of, things run smoothly with the way we perform our jobs.
Paid-up: Your just plain dumb. |
paid_up
Advanced Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 620
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2009 - 08:34 pm: |
|
Thank You vozveratu for your kind encouragement. Your support carries me thru these troubled times. Who are you to say Lords has to work as a server to know when she is getting shafted. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1098
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:10 am: |
|
Shafted by what? Hard working servers catering to her needs? Or shafted because I rounded up in her favor to make change so she wouldn't have to wait a long time?
Wow, the inhumanity of it all.
Your support carries me thru these troubled times.
Just as you've shown 10% support to your servers who are doing the job your asking of? Awww, are you feeling down? |
teleburst
Senior Member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 2523
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 11:41 am: |
|
"Or shafted because I rounded up in her favor to make change so she wouldn't have to wait a long time"?
I find it very strange that she even objects to this on the basis of fairness. Weird. |
paid_up
Advanced Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 622
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 03:46 pm: |
|
Don't try to understand it, it may be beyond your understanding. It is. |
vozveratu
Senior Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 1099
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 02, 2009 - 08:49 am: |
|
What's the point of trying to understand your dribble? Whether it's beyond my understanding or not, your opinions are worth far less than 10%.
I'd say a penny in a glass of water. Enjoy. |
paid_up
Advanced Member
Username: paid_up
Post Number: 624
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 02, 2009 - 09:18 am: |
|
My, my. Hit a nerve did we? |
|