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eeyore_conspiracy
New member
Username: eeyore_conspiracy
Post Number: 47
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 09:24 pm: | 
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Many servers admit to providing lower quality service on average to minorities because minorities on average don't tip as well.
Eliminating tipping would eliminate a major motivator for servers to use racism to determine how well they serve customers.
And when minorities are served better, they will, in turn, foster less hostility toward servers of a different race. |
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 688
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 09:30 pm: |
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Actually, we had a table in our old restaurant complain that an auto grat was on the bill. Screamed racist, etc. Yeah, you guessed it; they were black. Didn't want to leave the tip.
Also, what is motivating the server to give good service if they know they are going to make average salary or wage? Fear? You can attract more bees with honey than vinegar.
Yeah, you can force people to pay the tip on the bill by automatically adding it to the bill, or hiding it in the menu prices, but it still doesn't solve my number crunch.
How much would menu prices be if I was demanding 30.00 an hour as a server? |
ddock123
New member
Username: ddock123
Post Number: 31
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 09:41 pm: |
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I used to treat all my black customers like kings & Queens. Guess what? 50% still didn't tip. I don't go out of my way for the non-tippers anymore. I finally figured out there is not a damn thing I can do to get a tip from them. I know the ones who tip & they get A+ service. |
eeyore_conspiracy
New member
Username: eeyore_conspiracy
Post Number: 48
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 09:46 pm: |
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Actually, we had a table in our old restaurant complain that an auto grat was on the bill. Screamed racist, etc. Yeah, you guessed it; they were black. Didn't want to leave the tip.
That's a good reason to include it in menu prices. Having a seperate line item is what caused the problem.
what is motivating the server to give good service if they know they are going to make average salary or wage?
First, they don't have to make the average. Better servers can be paid more by the management. Worse servers can be paid less by the management. Second, reducing racism is a worthy goal. If that means servers have to be afraid of getting fired like most other workers on the planet, that's fine. Better servers will get raises and be promoted instead of getting higher tips.
it still doesn't solve my number crunch.
There is no number crunch. Determine what the average tip amount for the restaurant is. Distribute that cost to the menu prices. For instance, if a 15% explicit tip is enough, a 15% implicit "tip" will be enough.
How much would menu prices be if I was demanding 30.00 an hour as a server?
You haven't provided enough information to answer that question. I don't know what it would take for you to be able to make the full-time equivalent of $60,000/year. But that doesn't really have much to do with reducing racism. |
eeyore_conspiracy
New member
Username: eeyore_conspiracy
Post Number: 49
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 09:49 pm: |
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I used to treat all my black customers like kings & Queens. Guess what? 50% still didn't tip.
That's one of the reasons tipping is a broken system. And it has the insidious effect of reinforcing racism. Servers think they won't tip well, so they don't serve well. Minorities don't tip well because they think the servers won't serve well. If you remove tipping, neither party has to worry about it.
I don't go out of my way for the non-tippers anymore. I finally figured out there is not a damn thing I can do to get a tip from them. I know the ones who tip & they get A+ service.
If we were to get rid of tipping, you could just treat them like any other customer. |
byron
New member
Username: byron
Post Number: 11
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 11:41 pm: |
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eeyore,ok I can agree with you on this point " minorities don't tip well because they think the servers won't serve well." Pretty accurate. |
penelope
New member
Username: penelope
Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 01:07 am: |
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can't agree with you ont his one either. sure most servers see a black or a minority table and say great no tip, i agree i have seen it at work. but i have also seen those tables get great service and the table give a lot of verbal tips and then 10%, if the server is lucky. it is a racial thing, or an ignorance thing. sometimes it is not even about the tip, it is just about the attitude. i for one don't mind a crappy tip if at least the table is treating me like a normal person and it is not running me around just for kicks. sure you end up paying for that table, or end up getting no tip from them because of tip share, but at least they didn't make your temper boil trying to keep inside what you really want to say.
lets take the tip out of the question. what about when you go to a store for example and you are the one receiving service from a black person. it is the same thing. they give the same attitude you get when you serve them, and they are not supposed to treat customers like that, i believe that is not part of customer service. i have always lived for do not treat anybody like you do not want to be treated... |
ddock123
New member
Username: ddock123
Post Number: 32
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 06:36 am: |
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eeyore,
I said I USED to treat my black customers like queens & kings. They still didn't tip. I know my customers after 7 years & after being stiffed by the same black people over & over again, I finally said, "F*** it." I do give Great service to all of my customers. I just stoped with the a** kissing of those who never tip,& never will. When I go out & I get great service & the server goes out of their way to please me, I leave a 25% or more tip. I don't stiff the server after they have bussed their butt.
You say,"If you remove tipping, neither party has to worry about it." They don't seem worried about it. |
vitalryan
New member
Username: vitalryan
Post Number: 32
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 11:40 am: |
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Thats right, paco, I would expect that from you. You ALWAYS side with the criminal... You always pick the wrong side... my guess, you are a defense lawyer who believes everything your criminal clients say. oh, you know, if the police officer would just stop arresting these people, they would be less likely to resist arrest.
Are you serious? Because blacks want to rape the system, we should all cater to them? We are racist towards them because they outright choose to hijack us of our income, they disgusting, selfish garbage. Stop siding with them. |
varmintjane
New member
Username: varmintjane
Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 01:05 pm: |
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I agree that SOME black people have bad attitudes, but it is not ALL black people by any stretch of the imagination. Some of you need to keep this in mind. I am well within my right to get pissed of when people say things like that.
Yes I happen to be black, but I don't act like your stereotypical black person. And you know what? I was criticised for it by white people and black people. And then other white people are like "you are tan white girl" like it's a freaking compliment. I don't "act white" I act like myself. The less people stop associating certain races with certain traits the better off the world will be.
I think with bad tipping at large (no matter the race) is a result of ignorance. Until a year ago I thought 10% was a good tip (thank God I was never responsible for the tip back then) and until recently I though 15% was good. Some of it is just people being jerks though.
If someone gives me good service, I tip well. If I can tell that they don't want to serve me because I'm young, black or some other superficial reason they'll be lucky if all they get is a boot in the ass. Just kidding. I recently left a 3.00 on 40.00 because our server basically disappeared after our food was brought out. That may have just reinforced her opinion that young couples don't tip. Should I have left a note explaining why? I don't want to get her fired so we didn't ask for a manager. |
rev_rund
New member
Username: rev_rund
Post Number: 30
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 01:50 pm: |
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Eliminating tipping would eliminate a major motivator for servers to use racism to determine how well they serve customers.
And when minorities are served better, they will, in turn, foster less hostility toward servers of a different race.
Please explain how the former ensures the latter. That is can you explain why eliminating tipping would ensure better service for African Americans, or, for anyone for that matter? Isn't it just as likely that service quality would dip, and African Americans would become even more hostile as they might potentially perceive that this system was put in place to force them into tipping.
On a side note I was wondering if my little neck of the woods is the only place in the country where Blacks of equivalent economic status tip the same as whites? Yes poor blacks still stiff, but so do the NASCAR crackers we get every Sunday. So, is Northeast Ohio particularly enlightened or are there other areas out there? |
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 691
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 01:57 pm: |
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Nascar crackers, teehee, so true. I went to a race for one of my boys (loves race cars). Man, talk about the clientel there. I wouldn't want to serve them in my restaurant. Hooting and hollering.
Amazing humans we are, simply amazing. |
rev_rund
New member
Username: rev_rund
Post Number: 31
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 02:36 pm: |
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I didn't read varmintjanes post fully before leaving my blurb. It got me to thinking though that the tipping system and bars/restaurants are one of the last bastions in the world where people are forced to confront their own misconceptions, both as servers and customers on a daily basis. If not for this system we would never learn what weird little worlds each of us live in. Stand in a bar for 20 minutes and you can find out how very different we each view race, economics, and what service is. And all of this is directly related to the tipping system. Without the tipping system we would all walk around assuming that what we thought about socio-economics, race and other things was exactly right. In essence we would become nothing more than Mindless Braying Donkeys. God bless the service industry and the unrelenting light it shines on America's ugly spots! Tonight, don't tip just for service, tip to change someones opinion of you, and others, its almost patriotic. |
nutrimens
New member
Username: nutrimens
Post Number: 26
Registered: 04-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 03:44 pm: |
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"On a side note I was wondering if my little neck of the woods is the only place in the country where Blacks of equivalent economic status tip the same as whites?"
Nope. Out here in San Francisco, blacks tip pretty well. Now, I can't vouch for blacks across the economic spectrum who live here, but if my only experiences with black tippers were the ones I've had here, I'd say blacks tip better than average. Unfortunately I've worked in D.C. where it seems that blacks of virtually every economic rank tip poorly. But if your point is that it's culture, not race, which determines tipping practices, then kudos! |
jammie
Senior Member
Username: jammie
Post Number: 1179
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 08:49 pm: |
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I've always thought that it has more to do with economic standard and education.
I refer to the nascar crowd as the inbreed rednecks. Stars and bars flag on the pick up with their favorite race car drivers number in the middle. Propped right up there next to the hog huntin dog cages. |
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 692
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 07:53 am: |
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I don't think economic standards measure the tip you may or may not get. I've waited on CEOs of companies, 18%. I've waited on people who seem to live the same lifestyle as I do, 30%.
I think it has to do with education, social and culture. |
rev_rund
New member
Username: rev_rund
Post Number: 34
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 08:59 am: |
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I second, or third, or whatever were up to the social/culture thing. Which again is why I think donkey's argument is so misguided. Number one removing tipping won't reduce racism, it will change the racist opinions focus to something else. Number two, the present system in American bars and restaraunts truly is the one place where you can absolutely blow up any preconceived notion of people based on any prejudice you might hold. Without the system people would be able to hold onto their predjudices forever.
You think rich businessmen are classy, sophisticated and know how to take care of people? Wait till one puts down 8 glasses of Johnny Blue, grabs a servers butt, then trys to weasle out of the tab because you have cut them off.
Middle class Women are more dignified? Wait till one pulls her panties off and trys to pleasure herself while sitting at the bar on a crowded Saturday.
Indians? The businessmen from down the rode, demanding and cheap, the guys who own the restaurant next door, hillarious, friendly and generous.
I work within a mile of two very large multinational firms. They employee people from something like 30 different countries. My drinking friends include an economist from Kenya, a gypsy, a black southern 70 year old retired broker, a Vietnamese restraunteur, a bodybuilding Indian, two white chicks, and a first generation Korean with the last name of O'brien. If think you can judge an entire race based on your circumstance talk to me, I'll find someone to prove you wrong.
Except for the NASCAR crackers God How I Hate them - (no offense to non-crackers, who happen to enjoy racing, there is a difference |
varmintjane
New member
Username: varmintjane
Post Number: 3
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 09:12 am: |
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I think voz is right. Also some people are just not good people and they don't care that they are basically stealing services.
On a side note Ryan, are you referring to all blacks or just the ones who tip badly (or don't tip at all)? You really should make distinctions. You've said before (I think it was you) how the black servers you know agree that most blacks don't tip well. I can't imagine how those servers would feel if you said some of the racist crap to their face that you spew on this board.
If most of the white people in your area didn't tip well, would you assume that all whites are "disgusting, selfish garbage"? That's dehumanizing and it isn't right no matter what you think your justification is. I've come across women that hate blacks because a black guy raped them. They hate ALL blacks because of this not just black men. That's stupid to me.
If a white guy had raped these same women, they would not hate all whites or even all white men. The same principal is involved here. There is no excuse for it whatsoever. This kind of attitude still prevails in society and it shouldn't. I don't think being black should be held against me in ANY situation. If I treat you like crap, fine you'll know better next time but don't just assume that you know what kind of person I just by the color of my skin. |
vitalryan
New member
Username: vitalryan
Post Number: 35
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 10:24 am: |
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varmint,
I am NOT only referring to tipping practices, if you lived in South Florida, you would know. The blacks down here are garbage, AND one of my best friends, a black man, even feels the same way. He is from upstate New York and was absolutely blown away by the disgusting state of the black community in south florida.
One night, a black guy literally reached accross the table and smacked his girlfriend because of a small argument, another table, the same night, wouldn't even look up when I said hello to take their order, freaking god, if you could only experience the DAILY situations we go through with the black community in this area, you would understand. On top of all the rudeness and filthy behavior, they don't tip either. Therefore, they ARE trash. And I even said, NOT ALL OF THEM.. and I also said I give the benefit of the doubt to first impressions. I never ASSUME someone is disgusting personally before meeting them... most of the blacks down here prove me right in the first 15 seconds however... although some are the most pleasurable guests i've served...
I understand your post about "not all" but the FACT is, it's MOST.... so many people grow up being taught equality, but as soon as they get into the real world, and see for themselves, and experience themselves just how terrible the black community is, they pretty much turn racist, you wouldn't believe how many servers walk around spewing racist remarks, INCLUDING the black servers... |
varmintjane
New member
Username: varmintjane
Post Number: 5
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 11:39 am: |
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I do know. I lived in South Georgia and went to a predominantly black high school, so believe me I know how black people can be, even to other black people. I'm just saying these characteristics are not unique to black people. There are plenty of white men who beat their significant others and plenty of black men who don't.
It's not right to judge an entire community on what MOST of them do. Because when you generalize like that, you're looping me in with them and that upsets me. When you've dealt with racism personally directed at you (and it seems like you have) it hurts to hear things like this even when the justification is explained. How pissed do you get when you hear black people or other minorities make fun of whites or call them crackers?
I empathize with your situation but to be quite honest some of the things you say seem to be pointed to all black people. Like the comment in the black tipping thread where you said never take advice on parenting from a black woman. What was the reason behind that. That comment certainly seemed directed at all black women, not just some. |
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 695
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 11:53 am: |
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The problem with any of this deals with yourself and desires to have a happy job.
The clientel you wait on seem to make the job unpleasurable. You have two choices; Change the way you look at it and deal with it, or work at another restaurant that does not cater to that type of clientel, ie get another job.
Typing in the board is easier than the process of getting another job, but when I waited tables in a restaurant that had undesirable clientel, I began to look around for other places to work.
Serving is not easy.
Serving people you don't want to serve is torture.
Nothing is going to change your clientel, but you have the option of changing.
Sorry to preach and I feel your pain, but venting and arguing is not going to solve your problems.
Good luck. |
vitalryan
New member
Username: vitalryan
Post Number: 38
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 05:18 pm: |
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Second that voz... I luckily only have to deal with a couple black tables a shift... I am looking for another job however for other reasons, mostly to make another jump up as a server, go to the next level, and deal with VERY desirable clientelle.
varmint,
I don't know HOW many times I've had to say that although generalizations are made, I always give the benefit of the doubt to a first impression. Would you prefer if I spent the next 5 years gaining every undesirable black persons name just so we can discuss the horrific state of the black community? That way, YOU aren't looped in...
Of course there are plenty of bad whites as well, just not near as many. And considering whites outnumber blacks heavily, why is it that blacks outnumber whites heavily when it comes to crime? Thats not a good defense.
I'm not really venting or arguing, really. I just find it more entertaining to bullsh1t on message forums. |
vitalryan
New member
Username: vitalryan
Post Number: 39
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 05:28 pm: |
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Oh yeah, and BACK on topic... removing tipping would result in WORSE service in my opinion for minorities. It's more the nasty/rude attitude coupled with the crappy tip. But we DEAL with the attitude and rudeness because we still hope for a tip. Thus, get rid of our motivation... and I wouldn't give two craps about the rude minority tables. |
ddock123
New member
Username: ddock123
Post Number: 33
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 07:07 am: |
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Last night, I had a table of 11 black people. They were very friendly. We joked & they laughed at all my jokes, I was on a roll! They made comments about how fast I was, how I kept their tea full, ect. They were from the North. I even ask one of the ladies were she got her purse & she said, "New York". So, I was so happy because I knew this group knew how to tip.
They left $13. |
eeyore_conspiracy
Junior Member
Username: eeyore_conspiracy
Post Number: 56
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 03:30 am: |
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The less people stop associating certain races with certain traits the better off the world will be.
Unfortunately, tipping doesn't help do that. It does just the opposite. It creates self-fulfilling prophesies.
I recently left a 3.00 on 40.00 because our server basically disappeared after our food was brought out. That may have just reinforced her opinion that young couples don't tip.
And it may have reinforced her opinion that black people don't tip well. After all, it's a statistical fact that the average tip from a black person is less than the average tip from a white person.
That is can you explain why eliminating tipping would ensure better service for African Americans, or, for anyone for that matter?
It doesn't have to ensure it. That's just a completely ridiculous standard. That's like demanding that a new law end all instances of whatever crime it's targeted at. What's important is that it's reduced. It would reduce it by removing the major motivator for race differential treatment.
Isn't it just as likely that service quality would dip, and African Americans would become even more hostile as they might potentially perceive that this system was put in place to force them into tipping.
No. The hostility is largely the result of race differential treatment, that is, knowing or thinking that they're being treated differently.
the present system in American bars and restaraunts truly is the one place where you can absolutely blow up any preconceived notion of people based on any prejudice you might hold.
In other words, you're asking blacks to get service that tends to be worse and then overpay for that service to show their server that they pay well. You're asking them to bear the burden. |
rev_rund
New member
Username: rev_rund
Post Number: 42
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 11:06 am: |
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It doesn't have to ensure it. That's just a completely ridiculous standard. That's like demanding that a new law end all instances of whatever crime it's targeted at. What's important is that it's reduced. It would reduce it by removing the major motivator for race differential treatment.
I'll definetly buy it if you say you're a lawyer, you don't make points but you definetly can twist words and intent. I'll change my statement "How can you prove that eliminating tipping would reduce racism." If you did away with tipping the reason for the racist attitude of the server would just change to something else. Racism is not tied so strongly to money as it is to values and beliefs. Somewhere on this board Vital Ryan suggests not to take parenting advice from black women and indicates that he views black men as abusive to women. Do you think that a different pay scale would change those attitudes? I'm growing more convinced that you live in a theoretical bubble wherein the best possible solution can just be "applied'. |
penelopemarie
New member
Username: penelopemarie
Post Number: 5
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 12:03 pm: |
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tipping is just one more thing added in this whole "racist" debate. like i said it is not only when i serve them, it is also when i get service from them. when i mean service i don't mean restaurant service i mean retail service, where i do not have to tip. so then why do they have the same attitude when you are the customer. does this have something to do with tipping. no, because in this situation tipping is not part of the equation. i don't think their attitude is going to get better if tipping were eliminated. |
varmintjane
New member
Username: varmintjane
Post Number: 8
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 09:07 am: |
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I have gotten just as much (possibly more) bad service from whites as I have from blacks, so from my own experiences I could say that whites are judgemental elitist scum, but I don't because I know better.
Ryan, maybe I didn't give you enough credit. You have said that you give everyone a chance as far as prejudging a table, but some of your other comments indicate that you just plain don't like black people.
As far as the crime thing goes, there are so many different reasons for that. However, there are more black professionals than ever before, so the tide may be turning. A lot of crime is directly related to the economic status of the criminal and a higher percentage of blacks (and hispanics) tend to be poorer than whites. And of the whites in prison, a higher percentage of them are from a low income environment.
And eeyore, maybe I should have clarified that. I was at dinner with my husband, who is white. I was saying that I don't want to be stereotyped for ANY reason. Chances are she knew she did a bad job, but may justify it to herself that we were probably just a cheap young couple.
In that situation, she either was having an off day or she figured that she wouldn't get a good tip because we were young. The restaurant is connected to a hotel and the older couples around us had phenomenal waitresses. They were nice, engaging and checked back often. When we dared ask for more napkins (the only ones on the table were the ones the silverware came in) she brought them back and threw them on the table.
I don't think me being black had anything to do with the bad service we received. I have pretty light skin and she barely looked at me anyway so she may not have even registered that I was black. I should have been clearer about that. Maybe she just sucks. |
sweetcatriona
New member
Username: sweetcatriona
Post Number: 17
Registered: 05-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 03:15 am: |
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I copied this post of mine from the other page about black people tipping, which seems to be the focus here, but I wanted to comment on what Eeyore said....A tip comes at the END of service, so how do you think that "Minorities don't tip well because they think the servers won't serve well."
I work at a Fridays in South Florida. Our guests are quite mixed in age, gender and race. I would estimate over 30% are black.
The majority of the servers would prefer a white table to a black table. Period.
Personally, I have to say that I (a white woman in her late 20's) get tips from black guests that equal out to tips from white guests. I have had nights when my black tables gave me my biggest tips. I have had several guest compliments about my service from ethnic tables. I have gotten 25 on 80 from 4 "ghetto" looking women, who told me I was the best server they ever had, and only want to sit with me when they come in. I had an 8 top who had a 20 dollar grat on their check. After looking at the grat, the woman said "Good thing you do that, so you don't get screwed" She gave me another 20, and thanked me for the best service she ever had. I don't know what I do so different, I'm not the best server, I forget stuff sometimes. I always try and make good eye contact, and be extra warm, so the no I am looking at them as people, not a possible bad tip.
I want to quote 2 things from teleburst:
1. I guess the reason that I generally get "normal" tips from black tables is that I'm sensitive to the fact that they probably get subtle signs that they are a second-class table, even if the server doesn't intend to do that. If a guest dines out a lot, they can be attuned to being place in a second-class status, especially considering how many servers think. I know that some servers here have said that they don't treat them any differently even while saying that black diners tip poorly. I firmly believe that they subconsciously give off the impression that they are going to get stiffed. And if I had a lifetime of getting those sorts of signals, especially if it's overt, then I'm sure that I would be hyper-sensitive to even subconscious cues (the "internal eye-rolling" syndrome).
2.I now work in a restaurant that caters to everyone, rich and poor. We get a lot of black tables and yes, most of the servers complain about how blacks tip. Except for me. I get the same mix of black tables that everyone else gets and I don't think it's a coincidence that my black guests tip me somewhat close to what my other tables do
I also get the 5 on 50 regularly too from black (and more rarely white), or even 5 on 100 (black tables only). It usually balances out for me though. Worst was 0 on 80, on Thanksgiving, I only had 4 other tables that night, brought him change from his hundred, and he put it in his pocket while he thanked me. I cried that time. Manager gave me a few coupons to make up for it, but it hurt. I brought out free oreos to distract their VERY cranky 2 yr old so they could eat, talked to them, got a drink comped, I know I gave great service. They were a nicely dressed youngish black couple. And they were the only table I ever had that didn't tip me. But I didn't turn around and stop treating other black tables badly because of it. Why punish them?
And yes, I do internally roll my eyes on occasion, but only in certain situations. In my experience, it is the 5 to 7 top of black people who order the most expensive drinks and food that tip the worst for me. It bother me because it runs up my sales, I still tip out, and made no money for all my work. Why order steak and shrimp, food to go, and 5-7 dollar drinks, which I brought out to the patio, the FARTHEST spot from the kitchen, as well as heavy plates, which I cleaned up myself, and leave me 5 dollars on 125??? He actually apologized... Maybe he didn't realize that 3 servers wouldn't take their table, they were agruing about who had to serve them. And I just took them, even though they weren't even in my station. Luckily, it doesn't happen often.
White people tip the same as black people to me in general, good and bad, rich or poor. The only difference I see is that a white table never left me less than 10%.
I love serving and making people happy. I know that black guests generally have a higher standard of service. When I get a great tip from them (10 on 28, tonight's last table) I know that I truly did a great job, and maybe they will come back and see me.
Also, I have heard MANY black servers complain about crappy tips from black tables. It has nothing to do with the color their server is. |
byron
New member
Username: byron
Post Number: 22
Registered: 06-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 05:32 pm: |
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"Also, I have heard MANY black servers complain about crappy tips from black tables. It has nothing to do with the color their server is."
I have said this many times...If you think some black people are hard on other races, try being a fellow black person serving them.
www.thewaiterswalk-incooler.blogspot.com |
ddock123
New member
Username: ddock123
Post Number: 35
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 11:08 pm: |
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More examples. I treated these tables just as well as others. It is a fact where I work blacks tip poorly if not at all:
Thursday: 12 hour shift. The only non-tippers where a table of 3 black men.
Friday: 12 hour shift. The only two non-tipping tables were a young black couple and an older black couple. |
vozveratu
Advanced Member
Username: vozveratu
Post Number: 718
Registered: 01-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 10:17 am: |
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My example:
Black couple - Saturday Night - 20%
2 Black Ladies - Sunday Brunch - 18%
Not bad. |
ddock123
New member
Username: ddock123
Post Number: 36
Registered: 06-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 04:16 pm: |
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Vozveratu,
Must be nice. We are lucky to even get 15% here from anyone. |
vitalryan
New member
Username: vitalryan
Post Number: 43
Registered: 03-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 08:42 pm: |
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catriona,
You go about saying that you always get the same tips from blacks as white, than go about saying that blacks are the ones that leave $5 on $125 - and whites never do this. Where you work, checks like that are less common.
Where I work, a party of 4-6 will regularly rack up a check like that. Our check averages are over $50, what happens when most black tables hit $50 checks? $5 tip!
Catriona, blacks that go somewhere like Fridays, rack up a $30 check and leave $5 is not uncommon, blacks that have checks like that ALWAYS leave a decent tip, its' the big checks they whack you on.
Am I saying that ALL black tables do this? Not at all, in fact, just like you, the majority of my black tables tip me fairly. Majority as in 51%, lol. I go nights where my black tables leave perfectly reasonable tips. It's not ALL the black tables. But when you consider less than 1% of white tables will jack you like that, and 30% or so of the black tables will screw you over, it gets you frustrated.
So this begs the question - If 70% of your black tables DO tip properly, why the grudge and why fight over not taking black tables? Because that 30% is a high number. Because getting a crappy tip is kind of like being thrown off a bridge, it's painful. It can set off your mood for the rest of the night. The risk/reward is NOT in our favor.
eeyore,
There are MANY factors that have to do with poor treatment or racism as you suggest to black tables. The rudeness/elitist attitude go hand in hand with the poor tips from blacks. Almost any server will provide excellent service to a nice, well spoken black table. After doing this for some time, you can spot the crappy black tables like white on rice! Eliminate tipping, and the rude, crappy black tables will receive WORST service... |
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