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m_shaw
New member
Username: m_shaw
Post Number: 25
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 07:47 pm: | 
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1. police officers , they risk their life for little pay , next time you get a ticket for speeding , give an extra 15 % for the cop who pulled you over.
2. Nurses Sure they make a good hourly wage , but put in 12 hour days , work nights and weekends away from their family , clean up puke and wipe butts . They give better and more important service than most.
3. Plumbers , the guy that comes to your house to unstop your toilet generally isnt the owner , he may give you a bill for $ 125.00 but he doesnt get much of that for playing in your toilet
4. The heating and Air conditioning repair man, he doesnt realy want to be up in your attic fixing your air handler in a 120 degree room .
5. Car Mechanic , yup he works flat rate and makes about 20 bucks an hour , he has to buy his tools and toolbox , a good set of tools runs about 60 grand and you are constantly needing new ones . Who wants to be without their car ?
6. Firefighter, he pulls you out of a car wreck or burning building for 35 to 40 thousand a year , not much for risking your life.
These are all SERVICE PROVIDERS and you dont hear them whining about tips . I hear all these " I do a good job and I should be tipped" You were hired to do your job good at a pay rate that you accepted as part of your employement . If you want or need more money , get a second job , spend less, work harder , work overtime , ask for a raise , find another job that pays more,start your own business.
Remember the 11 th Commandment " Thou Shalt Not Whine" |
teleburst
New member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 502
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 11:59 pm: |
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"Remember the 11 th Commandment 'Thou Shalt Not Whine'"
Please take your own advice. |
linda
New member
Username: linda
Post Number: 114
Registered: 02-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 08:32 am: |
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M_shaw,
Personally...I believe that police officers and firefighters are underpaid. They put their life on the line...their salary or hourly pay should be much higher. Tipping them is not the answer. Their base salary should be adjusted.
In my area nurses get paid quite well. They even get sign-on bonuses of $5,000 or more. My daughter-in-law is a nurse. I've never heard her complain of her salary... The nurses in this are choose the 12 hr shifts...so they can work 3 days and then be off 3 days. The nurses CHOOOSE to work 12 hours. Yes...there are some nurses who do need to work over 8 hours...but they get compensated time and a half for overtime. A server does not get compensated for working longer than 8 hours a day (most of us are kept below the 40 hour work week).
In my area professional plumbers and air conditioning men make a good living. (good hourly wage).
If you want to make make statements about jobs...then you need to compare "apples to apples".
All of the professions you have mentioned make a salary that they can live on. A server makes $2.83 an hour. That system won't change. If all servers decided to quit because we were to told to "stop whining and get another job"...all restaurants would close.
So yes...a server's attitude is: if I do my job well...then I expect my guest to tip me...because that is the "economic system set up" in the U.S.
FYI....if the policeman, fireman, nurse, plumber, air conditioning man don't do their job right...they still get paid.
apples to apples please.... |
scarlett
New member
Username: scarlett
Post Number: 267
Registered: 01-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 26, 2004 - 06:39 pm: |
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m_shaw, why are you so full of hate for U.S. tippping customs and so filled with venom towards wait people? Not tipping appropriately for good service won't to squat to make the restaurant industry change their policies vis-a-vie tipping. You deny a worker thier renumeration for performing their job and in the long run you only punish yourself. When a known non tipper returns to a restaurant, he/she isn't important to the servers.His/her food will sit under the lights if another table's order is ready also.He/she will be waited on and served after our paying guests. And as has been mentioned previously, your server won't do anything more than is necessary.
We view people like you as no better than thieves and treat you like the parasite you are. If you don't return, we don't care as we've lost nothing, and in most eateries, the restaurant owners/managers don't want your business either. Good managers want good wait people; good wait people want to make money. The only way we can earn it is to be fairly tipped when we give good service.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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m_shaw
New member
Username: m_shaw
Post Number: 26
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 07:21 pm: |
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Is there a reference to wait people or the restaurant industry in my post? But Scarlet I have had waitresses with your attitude and their tip reflects both the service and attitude. As far as I am concerned my responsibility is to pay my food bill, your employeer is responsible to pay you. If I decide to leave a tip , you should be grateful. If you dont like the terms and conditions of your employment find another job. But , with your negative attitude 3 to 4 dollars per hour will probably be the high point of your career. Remember you are an employee you can be fired at the whim of your employeer . |
scarlett
New member
Username: scarlett
Post Number: 268
Registered: 01-2003
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 - 10:01 pm: |
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No, I'm being realistic. You may feel "as far I as I am concerned my responsibility is to pay my food bill, your employeer is responsible to pay you", but that is not how we do things in the USA. Your entire last paragraph of your opening post was directed at wait people.
I'm an excellent waitress. My employers have told me that I receive high praise for my service and my attitude; I go the extra mile. My co-workers say that I cater to my guests.
Indeed, just this past Sunday I received a real ego boost. A dinner guest I used to wait on many years ago at another restaurant was there with her sisters. She saw me, recognised me, and asked that they be placed in my station. We were reminising about old times, and she told me that I was always her favorite waitress when I worked at the Italian restaurant.
But I am in the business to make money. If I have waited on you previously, given you great service, and you failed to leave an appropriate tip, I certainly won't break my neck to cater to you again. Notice please that I never said that I expected to be tipped for poor service. I said "...good wait people want to make money. The only way we can earn it is to be fairly tipped when we give good service. " In the USA, the accepted payment for wait people is to be tipped.
Are you greatful when you make a profit from your business, or do you feel that you have earned your profit through hard work? Why should any worker in any business be greatful for being fairly renumerated? The terms of my employment call for my dining guests to leave me a commission, commonly known as a tip, at the end of their meal. Unlike most commisssion based enterprises, it is the consumer, not the business, who determines the amount of that commission.If your server has been solitious of your dining needs and did whatever he/she could to ensure your dining pleasure, they have done thier job and have earned that tip. If I have a client that I know from past experience won't pay me, I have absolutely no incentive to work hard for him/her. I'll serve you, but I sure won't break my neck to please you.
BTW,not only have I never been fired from any waitering position I've held, but I get calls every so often from the Italian restaurant I worked at asking if I would consider returning, and the job I just left wants me back. I'm an excellent worker, hard working, reliable, honest and concientious, and I expect to be treated as such. I usually average around $25-$30 an hour, so I must be doing something right.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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jammie
New member
Username: jammie
Post Number: 96
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 10:29 am: |
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M Shaw, doesnt the same standard hold true for your list of unappreciated workers? They accepted the job, at the rate of pay with the crappy hours.
I have already in a previous post stated that when I have been hired at any restaraunt job.I have been told the hourly wage, plus tips.So this tells me it is not just us servers who expect to be tipped. Management and owners assume that the guests will be leaving a gratuity.This is not a system that us servers made up as we went along. |
scarlett
New member
Username: scarlett
Post Number: 271
Registered: 01-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 03:36 pm: |
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Jammie, M_Shaw is just a troll seeking to justify his miserliness. Notice how while he was quick to try to denegrate me in his July 26th post, he's not come back since my reply on July 27. He has no rebuttal and is not man enough to appologise.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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m_shaw
New member
Username: m_shaw
Post Number: 27
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 09:10 pm: |
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Actually the name calling was started by the person named Scarlet, as I stated there was no mention of the restaurant business or wait people . Look at the title of the original post. As to Jamies reply , look again at the title to the topic , these people deserve a tip , do they recieve them ? no . Yes the people accepeted the job and the rate of pay , do they recieve tips , no , should they ? yes . They put a lot more on the line than wait people. P.S. The title of this forum is tipping page discussion, restaurants and people who wait tables would be one of the subjects of that discussion. You may wish to defend the position of tipping , I wish to attack that position . I wish to see tipping as for what it realy is , a gratuity, something that is given freely , not something expected. |
jammie
New member
Username: jammie
Post Number: 97
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 10:30 pm: |
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m shaw,when I was hired at my job I have been working at since January. I was told $2.75 an hour, plus tips.This was by a manager of the multi million dollar cooperation, that now employs me. My last job of eight years I was hired by the owner of the bussinness, I was told the rate of pay would be $2.13 an hour, plus tips.So as you can see it is not just us servers who expect to be tipped.I really think tipping is here to stay.
Lets get real, who could live on two or three dollars an hour?I would consider that a waste of time.Besides your policemen, plumbers, nurses, etc..make way more than that. Plus have serious bennefts.
I can understand that you are truely opposed to tipping.But give it a rest, nobody could possibly make a living on a servers wage without tips. |
scarlett
New member
Username: scarlett
Post Number: 273
Registered: 01-2003
Rating: 
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 10:56 pm: |
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Nope, I said you were miserly. That is a fact. Someone who receives good service and doesn't tip is a cheapskate and is no better than a theif. (You use your waiter's services and don't pay for them.) If the shoe fits, wear it. In the USA,a tip is expected when good service is received. Please take note! I keep on referring to good service. I certainly don't expect anyone to tip for poor service.
No, you don't have to tip, but guess what? We don't have to wait on you either. We have the right to refuse service except for reasons of race, sex or ethnicity.
We were hired with the stipulation that the majority of our income would be in the form of tips paid by our guests.That $2.35 an hr. Federal minimum is what our employers pay us for sidework, not for waiting tables. None of us expects to live on our paychecks; indeed our pay is usually negligable.
But go on about your cheapskate ways, keep on wondering why you get such indifferent service, and why your food sits under the lights while Mr. & Mrs.Tipper eat hot food.
BTW, the Scarlett in my nicky has a double T, the word really has a double L and Jammie is spelled with a double M. I hope you pay more attention to details in your business.Maybe your customers should double check their invoices if you are routinely careless with details. I don't usually mention typing or spelling errors, since I make those too, but your attitude annoys me enough to make me petty.
I still don't understand why you have such a bug up your assets about wait people. You won't change the system by refusing to tip; you only penalise your waiter and in the long run yourself. Personally, I don't care who pays me, whether it's my guests, my employers or The Man in the Moon as long as I am fairly paid for my services. As I stated previously, I am college educated. I chose to return to waitering because I earn more money and have greater scheduling flexibility as a waiter.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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scarlett
New member
Username: scarlett
Post Number: 274
Registered: 01-2003
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 11:04 pm: |
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Oh, BTW, my brother is a retired cop, my nephew is a county sherriff, one grand nephew is a firefighter, another is a NYC policeman, and my sister was a nurse, so I know what those professions earn. They neither expect nor are allowed to take gratuities of any kind. Indeed, try tipping a cop, and you'll be arrested for bribing an officer of the law.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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teleburst
New member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 505
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 06:17 am: |
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Shaw wrote:
"I wish to see tipping as for what it realy is , a gratuity, something that is given freely , not something expected".
Then you need to elect officials that will change the laws and codes of the US. Tipping is *not* a gratuity under the law. If it were, it wouldn't be considered income and therefore taxable. Stop whining to us. |
lsvalet
New member
Username: lsvalet
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 06, 2004 - 04:15 pm: |
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Police officers cannot be tipped for bribery purposes. Also keep in mind with Police Officers, they often work side jobs in uniform for $30+ an hour untaxed. They make money don't worry. |
hase
New member
Username: hase
Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 12:31 pm: |
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All he is trying to do is point out the same thing that I have asked about here. Why does the system elect certain people worthy of having to earn their income at the random will of the people they serve and other professions not? Why is it expected that a restaraunt should not have to pay their employees a livable wage and yet every other industry in America does (other than stripping...)? Why do the people who most rely on this random, circumstantial will of their patrons defend it so zealously? Many of you claim that you make, say, $20 an hour, wouldn't you rather just get paid that and not have to hope that the cook doesn't screw something up, or hope that the next tables kids don't ruin your tables "experience?"
I still want to hear a good, analytical, argument for this system, following the guidelines in my post. |
george
New member
Username: george
Post Number: 246
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 01:50 pm: |
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Tipping is not a system it's the public's doing. Businesses want you to think it's their doing since they have figured out how to financially benefit from it. Our constitution guarantees us liberty which includes spending our money however we choose. Tipping is strictly voluntary and anyone may be chosen as deserving of a tip. It's all up to the customer. Please don't confuse tips which are given freely with service charges which blatantly misrepresent tips. No laws say you have to tip. However no laws say you have to pay service charges when they are fraudulently passed off as required tips. There is no such thing as required tips. Tips have nothing to do with requirements. They have to do with a customer's constitutional rights to liberty.
If people want to tip god bless them. If some don't want to tip god bless them too. When or if our public stops tipping you may get your way for employers will have to pay their tipped employees minimum wage. Bussinesses want to solicit tips from you because they have figured out how to financially benefit from your tips. Employees have been forced to solicit tips from you because their employers are financially benefitting from the tips that have been freely given and are financially benefitting from fraudulent service charges which are represented as tips. This is not the server's system. This is not the tipped employee's system. I am not even sure what system you are talking about. The only reason employees who receive tips defend tipping is to acknowledge that someone has tipped them and that that tip should be their's. The only reason servers and other tipped employees are complaining that they are deserving of their tip is because employers aren't letting them keep the financial benefits of their tips. The reason people who most rely on this random, circumstantial will of their patrons defend it so zealously is because it is being fraudulently stolen from them. So why don't you do as you want and not tip but at least defend those who have received a tip. |
mplsraisin
New member
Username: mplsraisin
Post Number: 60
Registered: 08-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2004 - 02:57 pm: |
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First of all, Hase, very few, if any, restaurants would pay anywhere close to $20 an hour to their wait staff. In my company, managers make about $13.50 an hour when you break their down their salary. I used to be a manager on salary with my company, so I know what they make. I am tipping my hand a little here, but I work for the largest casual dining corporation in the world so I have to believe that the pay is similar at other restaurants of its type. Now why would any company pay their servers more than their manangers? That said, I would never work for less than an average of $15-$20 per hour and provide the same level of service that I provide now. No way. Pay me the ten or so dollars an hour that a restaurant would probably pay and watch your service go right out the door. Want those extra napkins right now? How about that extra dressing? Oh, your steak is overcooked? You will wait because now I have ten tables all wanting something at the same time instead of five. And I will make my money no matter how happy or disappointed you are so why should I really, truly care? I will care about as much as anybody else who has to wait on people for a flat rate like the people behind the counter at McDonald's. Want to fire me? Good luck finding a decent replacement. As I have said before - it is hard enough as it is for restaurants to hire, train, and retain good help as it is. Restaurants have some of the highest turnover rates in the business world. Give me a dining room free of Shaws and a chart full of Scarletts any day. |
hase
New member
Username: hase
Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2004 - 06:58 pm: |
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mplsraisin said, "Pay me the ten or so dollars an hour that a restaurant would probably pay and watch your service go right out the door."
As I said in my other post, I lived and travelled in many places where the wait staff is not tipped but rather paid the wage that the free-market economy determined that their time was worth, and never noticed a difference in quality of service. Besides, many posters here argue that the majority of what constitutes a tip should always be left regardless (15%), leaving only a little to differenciate good service (up to 5%). The tips still have to come from the same financial source as the payment for the food, why can't it just all be on the menu and servers can stop complaining when they get a "lousy 10%," when they tried hard but the food was wrong? |
scarlett
New member
Username: scarlett
Post Number: 352
Registered: 01-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 01:20 am: |
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Hase, in Europe they have free medical/dental care. In the US, wait people must provide for their own medical/dental insurance. Also from what Teleburst has said, standards of dining are vastly different in Europe.
My daughter waitressed in Israel and she told me that her guests were always telling her how much more polite she was than the native Israli waitresses.(Yes, I know, every mother's dream; her child working in the restaurant biz as an illegal alien!LMAO!) Anyway, the reason my kid was so polite (aside from a good upbringing of course) was because she wanted a big tip.
BTW, I don't argue for a good tip when service was mediocre. I do remind you though that servers don't prepare the food. Servers should check the table to see if everything is okay. If your meal isn't right, it's up to you, the dining guest, to tell your server that so that the meal can be returned and properly prepared or a different order can be made for you.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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scarlett
New member
Username: scarlett
Post Number: 353
Registered: 01-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 01:31 am: |
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Oh, and I agree with MplsRaisin. If I were making a flat $10.00 an hour before taxes, I sure as heck wouldn't do anything extra! I'd be polite because that is my nature, but instead of checking to see if the dessert you loved was downstairs, I'd be in the back having coffee and a cigarette. There would be no incentive for me to do otherwise.
PS MplsRaisin, TY for the compliment! Even my husband tips me! (It's true! He said that he didn't want people to think he was cheap or that I was a bad waitress, so he always leaves me a 25%tip if he eats at my job!)
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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jammie
New member
Username: jammie
Post Number: 180
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 08:08 am: |
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Scarlett,mplsrasin, Teleburst......I think we have a jealousy issue here. Seems to me the non servers here on this board are indignant at the fact we make such great money.We dont deserve it (they think) after all people with dangerous jobs or degrees dont make as much as servers/bartenders.
Not everyone is server material, they just cant cut the mustard.I as a teenager at my first job realized the earning potential of restaurant work. This type financial arrangemnet was already in place and had been for many years.I happend to stick with it and here I am many years later still making good money.
I am happy when I hear of people making a great commission, getting a pay raise, promotion or one of my co workers making a killing. I dont have the idea that it should be me and only me that makes the big bucks.
I have put much thought as to why would others begrudge us servers making good money? Then it came to me the jealousy monster has reared its evil head. |
hase
New member
Username: hase
Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 02:12 pm: |
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No jealousy. I am training as a lawyer and love the work I do and will do. I just contest that my experience in Europe indicated to me, no appreciable difference in service. (By the way, yes, they do have socialized welfare but they also pay outrageous taxes to get it, probably more than is deducted from the average paycheck here for medical/dental insurance).
I just see this as a different way of doing business (no better, no worse... I'm not complaining), that is adamantly defended by certain people. As I have said, if I pay more for food or I tip, makes no difference to me I just want someone to argue the analytical benefit to the use of "Tipping," rather than just saying that "service will go out the window."
Plain and simple, other countries have shown that that is not the case.
Scarlett, I am sure you are proud of your daughter and that there has been no exageration or lack of objectivity. Ask someone who spent a considerable amount of time (not just a person who travelled for a month or so and never got over the 6-month culture shock period) if there was a difference. I never noticed decreased service in Germany, Austria, or many Eastern European countries. I doubt I was just lucky the whole time I was there.
Like I said before, the money all comes form the same place so the rates wouldn't have to change at all, just a change of when and how the money is allocated.
Really, I'm not jealous or even advocating change, I just want to understand what makes so many people so zealous about this tipping system. |
george
New member
Username: george
Post Number: 248
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 03:18 pm: |
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Tipping is a system devised by customers to reward service workers. The better their service is the more tips and income the worker receives. The more tips the worker receives the better the service. The more tips the worker receives the less businesses have to pay those workers. Everyone wins.
However, when the system breaks down and customers are prevented from determining who should receive their tip or be rewarded for their service, such as when employers require tip pooling or credit tips to the employer through the tip credit provision, customers and the workers suffer from the undeniable break down of this system. Customers will see little or no effects of their tipping which has been intended to motivate service workers to do a good job. Workers will not see the financial rewards from the tips that customers have presented them because businesses will be obtaining many of the finacial benefits for themselves.
Tipping is a great system if it is allowed to operate correctly. Customers must be allowed their rights to determine which employee or employees have performed their service to the customer's standards. Employer required tip pooling and tip outs do not allow customers these rights. The tip credit which financially benefits the employer with money presented as tips by customers errantly credits those financial rewards intended for workers directly to the business. Instead of the employees becoming motivated to do a better job businesses are motivated to obtain more of the financial benefits of our public's tips.
Again tipping is a great system for everyone but when it is so blatantly altered to become a system for businesses to defraud their customers into finacially benefiting the business it becomes an injustice. |
hase
New member
Username: hase
Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 05:30 pm: |
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I can understand a fairness issue in trying to pool tips, but you're right it does destroy the only reason any of you have ever put forth to defend the system. A reason that I have contested as non-absolute, an increase in quality of service. George, you have said that a benefit is that the business can pay the servers less. I am still left wondering, if the business just charged more (say the 17% that servers indicate is acceptable), paid more (say the $15 - $20 that servers indicat they are making now), and used the same motivation to make servers work hard that every other industry in the US uses, everyone would have a reliable and steady income that is not dependant upon extraneous dining variables that are out of the server's control (atmosphere, food quality, time of day...). Or are these things that servers like about the job? I can't imagine that they are but I guess I don't know. I really am not one sided, as devil's advocate, I am just looking for a well reasoned argument for either side of this issue. |
scarlett
New member
Username: scarlett
Post Number: 357
Registered: 01-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2004 - 09:50 pm: |
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Hase, I don't have time to give you a detailed reply right now.I just wanted to point out one thing. You said "(By the way, yes, they do have socialized welfare but they also pay outrageous taxes to get it, probably more than is deducted from the average paycheck here for medical/dental insurance)"
The thing is, most wait people don't have any kind of medical/dental insurance from their jobs. Most of us either must pay for our health care, including any insurance, out of our own pocket. None of the restaurants I've ever worked for offered any kind of health insurance.
I am insured under my husband's policy, but most of my co-workers pay for their own premiums in full. Some don't have any at all.
Oh, my daughter is currently working with an Israli phone company's voice recognition computers, teaching English. Since she has a Southern drawl similar to mine,in the future Israli's might hear "Shalom y'all." <grin>
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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mplsraisin
New member
Username: mplsraisin
Post Number: 61
Registered: 08-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 02:26 am: |
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Hase, you may have been lucky (in many months to many years in Europe, probably not) or maybe you are an easy to please kind of person like I am. I have encountered every type of guest there is: people who want the bare minimum level of service (usually those conducting business with others at the table and don't want to be disturbed) to the mother with four kids that require/demand lots and lots of service - lots of napkins; a towel or two to clean up frequent spills; crackers to pacify their spoiled, rude, impatient children (which I refuse to give because they are invariably crunched over a three foot radius of the high chair); balloons, crayons, paper, or anything else I can provide so that the "parent" doesn't have to "parent". Then there are the women co-workers that camp for three hours chatting away like they haven't seen each other since the Reagan Administration that require refill after refill before finally settling their (separate) checks (they need separate checks because it would be a crying shame if they paid more than a nickel more than they had to). Then I have lots of minorities (I work in downtown Minneapolis - think "inner city") that think it's OK to examine the menu like it's the Rosetta Stone for ten minutes while I am standing next to the table after I have asked them if they have questions or need a few more minutes and then complain about EVERY LITTLE THING after they get their food and want me to make MULTIPLE trips to get them everything that they need. Our vegetables include yellow squash and about nine times out of ten when they get the vegetables that come with their entree they act like I just served them moon rocks with their vegetables and demand something different which requires a detailed explanation of their options and then the (fruitless, tipless) effort of replacing them. Guess who tips me the best? That's right, the four top of businessmen who just want their iced tea topped off regularly, their food hot and as ordered, and the check delivered and settled in a timely manner. Not the stressed out parent that will pawn off any responsibilities that he or she can in order to keep their kids quiet. Not the "sewing circle" that takes up one of my tables throughout lunch that I could have turned five times and made five times as much money from. Not the "ghetto trash" (not to be confused with "white trash" - which are just as bad or worse) that doesn't distinguish my restaurant from an Arby's. I have spent quite a bit of time in Europe, Hase, and I have determined that the European public is not only more homogeneous (the same racial/ethnic/religious/educational background from region to region) but also much more relaxed and less demanding. I wish that the American public were more like my boyfriend and I (both of us wait tables and bartend). We go out to enjoy the dining experience, say "please" and "thank you", anticipate our needs so that the server doesn't have to make unnecessary trips, are over all pleasant to wait on, and tip really, really well. We do, on occasion, get bad service and let the tip do the explaining as anyone should. Maybe you are more like us, Hase - pretty low-maintenance with reasonable expectations. I wish I could say that of most of my guests. Hase, I sometimes work cooking shifts in my restaurant for $11 per hour. I could make much more on the floor but do so, on occasion, because the stress level is minuscule compared to dealing with the stress of the dining room. I have said many times, at work, that sometimes it's better to deal with ten demanding people (the servers trying to make their guests happy) than an entire section full of demanding people. |
hase
New member
Username: hase
Post Number: 10
Registered: 11-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 09:43 am: |
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First, thank you mplsraisin, I think that is the first objective analysis I have read on these boards. I had honestly not thought about the fact that the Europe's cultures are more homogeneous and even the foreigners there are probably expecting something different than what they might normally expect (unlike some of your examples).
I do still wonder, though, instead of worrying about those hard to deal with tables not tipping sufficiently, should the restaraunt just add a little to the menu price and deliver it to you in the form of a paycheck (then using other incentives to motivate you to work hard). Might this relieve some of the stress that you said you suffer working the floor as opposed to the kitchen? Have you, or anyone here, ever worked a night when it seems like no one was tipping very well? Like I stated before, maybe I am just too financially pedantic a person to live with a paycheck that is reliant on so many out-of-my-control variables. |
george
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Username: george
Post Number: 252
Registered: 05-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 10, 2004 - 04:31 pm: |
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Most paychecks are reliant on many out-of-my-control variables just look at America. Business owners have every right and ability to pay employees as liitle as $5.15 an hour. That means pays can vary from $5.15 an hour to hundreds of dollars an hour all based on out-of-my-control variables. Supply and demand is out of my control. As long as we keep allowing illegal immigration at an out of control pace many workers will not receive much in the way of pay. The supply of workers is being manipulated so that businesses don't have to pay as much for workers. I do not want to contend with businesses who can determine my pay based on their manipulated control of the supply of workers. I want my tips.
While businesses have proven that they will stop at nothing to reap financial rewards for themsleves our public's uninfluenced generosity is easily observed in their tipping customs. As a tipped employee I observe much more control over my financial rewards due to our public's tipping customs than if I were to be dependent on my employer. Tip earners earn more than many other workers because of our public's generosity. Why would anyone want to be at the mercy of employers who blatantly manipulate the supply of workers so that they do not have to pay them a decent living wage? That's why customers tip. They see the injustices that businesses are creating in our society when businesses continually raise prices and the cost of living for their benefit but lobby Congress to keep minimum wages down. Our public clearly is in opposition to businesses reaping all the financial benefits of our society and understand that the workers must be compensated fairly to keep up with the cost of living. It's our public's way of saying screw your greedy manipulation of wages our people deserve better. |
jammie
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Username: jammie
Post Number: 183
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 07:57 am: |
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Hase, you ask if anyone has worked a shift that no one was tipping? Not an entire shift for me, but I work in a airport. The flights that go to New York, seem to be packed with the most difficult cheapos.Dripping with jewlery and toting designer luggage.Where is the love????
Now the Boston flights, we are talking a new ballgame.Nice people, easy going, friendly, more likley to leave a good/decent tip.
The midwesterners are not the best tippers but very nice, so you can go with it.San Fran...I'll take a plane load of them.Canadians, Im bringing some of them home with me to teach me how to be frugal.
Yes I am polite to all, because we dont always get to choose who we wait on.Besides that is who I am. |
mplsraisin
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Username: mplsraisin
Post Number: 62
Registered: 08-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 02:37 pm: |
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Interesting that you mention out-of-control variables, Hase. You don't like them with your paycheck and I don't like them with my service. There are a lot of variables involved with service - most of which are outside the customer's control. Not all servers are the same - some are really good, some are really bad, most are in between somewhere. Tips give you a great deal of control of those variables. Wouldn't you feel ripped off if you were forced to pay for bad service? I know I would. Under the tipping system you determine what your service was worth using customary American guidelines. A little confession concerning my last post. The difficult conditions that I described are more typical of a night shift which I don't work because of all of the ghetto and weirdos. I mostly work the day shift that brings in the suburban business crowd - they can be really snotty, but at least know how to tip. And I don't suffer from anything at work - I like my job, I make what I feel is decent money, otherwise I would go elsewhere. As for the cheapies, weirdos, and ghetto - I just laugh - everything is somehow fine in the end. And I don't need motivation to work hard - I just refuse to be bossed around by my tables for the ten bucks an hour my restaurant would pay me in absence of tips. If you really want to grasp the true meaning of karma, just work in a restaurant for a few weeks. |
jammie
New member
Username: jammie
Post Number: 188
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 10:55 pm: |
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mplsrasin, yea it all seems to work out at the end of a week. When I tally up my weekly haul. Its way more than $10.00 an hour, which I wouldnt consider working for. Much less the $2.13 an hour that m_shaw thinks we should live on.What planet is he from? |
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