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hibby76
New member
Username: hibby76
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 20 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 04:11 pm: | 
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For the record, I have worked in the service industry where I recieved less than minumum wage and survived on tips. I decided that I wanted to make more money and be treated better so I changed jobs. Simple enough.
#1. SERVERS DO NOT MAKE "LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE"
According to the fair employment act, you CAN'T make less than minimum wage. In any given pay period, if your base salry + tips do not exceed minimum wage, your employer is required to make up the difference upon request. There's probably a poster in the breakroom of your work that says as much. Read it if you don't believe me. If you're only making minimum wage and you're not happy with that, then it's time to look for a new job. Welcome to Capitalism.
#2. "NOT TIPPING WILL CREATE BAD SERVICE"
Do you think "when I go to the docter, I better slip him a $20, otherwise he won't tell me what's REALLY going on??? Absolutly not. Why would he sabatoge his business like that. Do you think your employer will let you cuss at customers and spit in their food? No way! Sure you may get away with it here and there, but at the end of the day if your boss finds out that you spit in some food, you're canned. Fear is a terrible motivator. I believe that tipping has gone out of control. At the airport someone moves your bag 3 feet and they're looking at you with their hand out. I wish we could start over....Servers get paid a wage that the economy will bear (no one forces you to work where you do). Food prices are slightly higher, and restaurants pay their servers. If it is a popular restaurant, and business is good, they'll require more professional servers and pay them accordingly. And for that once in a lifetime dining experience where your server makes an HUGE difference, slip them a few bucks, or offer them some of your services, or talk to their manager and tell them how much you appreciated their efforts. Why has tipping become standard in some industries and very taboo in others.....There is no rhyme or reason. Should we tip an airline pilot for getting us there safely? How about the tech support guy that just saved you hours of headaches? The cable guy? How can you expect your mail carrier not to toss some of it unless you're tipping him? How about your accountant? Real estate agent? Auto mechanic (how do you know he's not putting sugar in your gas tank if you don't tip him???) THIS LOGIC IS ABSOLUTLY INSANE! Why is it that all the waiters and waitresses out there think that that type of thinking is acceptable.
If tomorrow everyone in the world stopped tipping, what would happen? Waiters and waitresses would quit, businesses would have to pay more money to their servers, food prices would increase slightly, waiters and waitresses go back to work, and life continues on as normal. There would be no crisis. All the restaurants would not close. All the servers would not be out of work. There would be a slight economical adjustment, and life would go on with only a small glitch.
#3. WAITERS AND WAITRESSES ARE POOR
This may or may not be true. Many in the service industry average 4X's minimum wage and more. Maybe not at Denny's, but again, no one is making you work there. Why should we feel sorry for you and make up the difference if you choose a carreer unwisely? Waiters can make incredibly good money for a "blue collar" job that requires absolutly no education and only some on the job training. Sure, some of you will give me grief about "it's not that easy....etc, etc, etc". You're right....that's why it's called "WORK". Think it's easy to work on roofs in the summer for similar same pay? Think it's easy to pay $50K in tuition and 4 years of your life for the same pay? Compared to MANY other jobs, being a waiter is easy. America is still the land of opportunity. You can start your own business, go to school, and carve out your own life.
#4. WAITERS AND WAITRESSES GET SCREWED ON TAXES
That is true sometimes.....but the IRS was forced to change the laws because of decades of abuse. It was the industry standard to report about 10% of your tips, and pocket the other 90% tax free. Other people that try that get VERY SEVERE fines from the IRS (e.g., lets see what happens when a doctor only reports 10% of his income to the IRS). You brought the problem upon yourselves (collectivly). How can this be reconciled??? GET AWAY FROM TIPPING ALL TOGETHER. Your income will be reported on your W2's just like most other people in this country. In the mean time we can enjoy good service at a restaurant with predictable and fair pricing.
#5. RESTARANTS CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY WAITERS/WAITRESSES MORE
If I pay $20 for food, and $4 for service....Couldn't I have afforded to pay $24 for food and $0 for service? This arguement holds no water at all.
#6. PEOPLE THAT DON'T TIP ARE GREEDY
Again, are you greedy because you don't tip your doctor, airline stewardess, dentist, physical therapist, your kids' teachers, principals, janitors at the office, reservation agents, accountant, book keeper, etc.... Perhaps the just don't share your view of tipping and are sticking to their principals.
#7. PEOPLE SHOULD TIP FOR AVERAGE SERVICE
WHY??? Many people you should tip less for poor service. Why tip at all if it was poor??? That is completly illogical. Tips should be given for exceptional service. This should be the motivation for waiters and waitresses to work incredibly well and not just to get the job done.
#8. SERVERS NEED TIPS.
I need tips too. It would be nice if my company's customers would start paying me just for doing my job, but they don't. I get by. Servers don't need tips. Servers like tips, and have come to expect them, but they do not need them. As was said above, they're making at least minimum wage and it's their choice. If they don't like it, they can change. We live in a capitalistic society. Supply and demand should be the primary economic factors. Tipping because I feel sorry for you because your a server is a terrible thing to do. In 3rd world countries "beggers" actually hurt the economy. Sure money is coming in, but nothing is being produced, and it only encourages more people to be idle and unproductive. Doesn't the person who's eating at your resaurant need the money to stay in his pocket as much as you need it in his/hers? We all have economic pressure and stresses. How do you know that the guy that you're serving doesn't make as much money as you do??? Most servers make more money that people that work temp jobs, janitors, house cleaners, etc. Besides all of you make more than people in El Salvador....why not send 20% of your earnings to them on a regular basis?
#9. MANDATORY TIPPING SHOULD BE THE NORM
Wait a minute....haven't we just heard pages and pages of posts saying that tipping creates good service. As soon as a server KNOWS he's getting 15% because it's a group of 6 or more (or whatever the restaurant's policy is), the incentive to give good service has just gone out the window. You spit in all the food, are slow with the drinks, etc and YOU'RE STILL GOING TO GET 15%. It goes against every "tipping theory" that's out there.
#10. TIPPING SHOULD BE A PERCENTAGE OF THE BILL
Expensive wine is harder to pour? Cavier is tougher to carry than an apetizer? Tipping has become standardize this way when it should never have been. Again, this thought is 100% illogical.
#11. EVERYONE IS DOING IT
Weren't we taught to avoid caving in to peer pressure??? Why do we do so now???
AFTERTHOUGHT....
I do tip...after I eat, I hand my wallet to my wife and she pays the tip. I view tipping as encouraging the perpetuation of a system that is broken. She view it as helping someone out that isn't very fortunate. She feels sorry for the waiters/waitresses. I tip because it makes my wife happy. We should have the option of paying for the food and picking it up ourselves. Filling our own drinks as we want them, and letting the servers know that upfront. They're happy (they're not wasting time and energy on us) and we're happy, as we don't have to pay them to carry food 20 feet. The fact is that there is not a good solution. The government is not going to institute sweeping change, and social change will not occur spontaneously enough to create change. In the mean time there will remain the people that willingly tip, the ones that grudgingly tip, and those who don't tip for various reasons.
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jammie
New member
Username: jammie
Post Number: 102
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: 
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 10:06 pm: |
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Let me tell you HIbby, I have a college education, I declare my tips to the IRS. I am in this line of work because I like it.So dont feel sorry for me!!! I make about $25.00 dollars an hour sometimes more and not too often less!!! If I didnt make enough I would be in another line of work.
Tipping is here to stay like it or not.
Besides let me give you a little more information. If I spit in your soup I sure wouldnt do it in front of a mangager.Most managers were at one time or another a server, but if not they have had to deal with upset guests.This would make them wish they had put bodily fluids in the soup.
If you didnt make a nice tidy sum as a server that gives me some indiacation of what kind of service you provided. |
teleburst
New member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 512
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: 
Votes: 7 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 02:20 am: |
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My replies are after each segment.
For the record, I have worked in the service industry where I recieved less than minumum wage and survived on tips. I decided that I wanted to make more money and be treated better so I changed jobs. Simple enough.
"Be treated better". Now *that's* a telling phrase.
#1. SERVERS DO NOT MAKE "LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE"
According to the fair employment act, you CAN'T make less than minimum wage. In any given pay period, if your base salry + tips do not exceed minimum wage, your employer is required to make up the difference upon request. There's probably a poster in the breakroom of your work that says as much. Read it if you don't believe me. If you're only making minimum wage and you're not happy with that, then it's time to look for a new job. Welcome to Capitalism.
I don't think that any of us claim that we "make minimum wage". In fact, I've claimed that at my last restaurant, I made $15 - 18 an hour including tips.
We *do* claim that we are paid by the employer as little as $2.13 an hour. That's why we consider tipping "mandatory". As I have explained over and over, menu prices reflect these lower wages. That's the system that's developed. One myth that folks like you propagate is that tips are 'gratuities". They are NOT. A gratuity is a gift and a gift up to $10,000 a year per person is tax-free. We pay taxes on our tips.
#2. "NOT TIPPING WILL CREATE BAD SERVICE"
Do you think "when I go to the docter, I better slip him a $20, otherwise he won't tell me what's REALLY going on??? Absolutly not. Why would he sabatoge his business like that. Do you think your employer will let you cuss at customers and spit in their food? No way! Sure you may get away with it here and there, but at the end of the day if your boss finds out that you spit in some food, you're canned. Fear is a terrible motivator. I believe that tipping has gone out of control. At the airport someone moves your bag 3 feet and they're looking at you with their hand out. I wish we could start over....Servers get paid a wage that the economy will bear (no one forces you to work where you do). Food prices are slightly higher,
No, food prices would rise by over 30%. Look at it this way - the largest segment of any restaurant is the waitstaff, which is paid 2.13 - 4.50 an hour. Now raise all of those manhours by $10 to $12 and see where food prices go. Our restaurant has 10 - 13 servers, two bartenders 5 backwaiters and 3 food runners, each of them averaging about 6 hours per shift. Just raising the servers' salaries by, say, $10 an hour would mean another $1400 a day in payroll. That's $500,000 A YEAR, just in server salary. That's 10% of our yearly sales alone. Then, on top of that, the business would have to pay the requisite increase in unemployment taxes. Who knows how much *that* would add?
and restaurants pay their servers. If it is a popular restaurant, and business is good, they'll require more professional servers and pay them accordingly. And for that once in a lifetime dining experience where your server makes an HUGE difference, slip them a few bucks, or offer them some of your services, or talk to their manager and tell them how much you appreciated their efforts. Why has tipping become standard in some industries and very taboo in others.....There is no rhyme or reason. Should we tip an airline pilot for getting us there safely?
Nope. Because he makes $100,000+ already.
How about the tech support guy that just saved you hours of headaches? The cable guy? How can you expect your mail carrier not to toss some of it unless you're tipping him?
Because these guys don't make $3000 a year.
How about your accountant? Real estate agent? Auto mechanic (how do you know he's not putting sugar in your gas tank if you don't tip him???) THIS LOGIC IS ABSOLUTLY INSANE! Why is it that all the waiters and waitresses out there think that that type of thinking is acceptable.
We think it's acceptable to get paid for our services. We think that you're DAMN LUCKY to have a say in it. Imagine if there were no incentive to give good service. Ever eaten in Europe where servers are paid a salary?
If tomorrow everyone in the world stopped tipping, what would happen? Waiters and waitresses would quit, businesses would have to pay more money to their servers, food prices would increase slightly,
Once again, a myth.
waiters and waitresses go back to work, and life continues on as normal. There would be no crisis. All the restaurants would not close. All the servers would not be out of work. There would be a slight economical adjustment,
Another myth.
and life would go on with only a small glitch.
A 15% MORE food tab glitch (counting the current tip that you should be giving).
#3. WAITERS AND WAITRESSES ARE POOR
This may or may not be true.
Good servers are *not* poor. I own my own house. Of course, I'm not rich either because there's only so many people you can wait on in a shift. Bad servers soon leave the business because they receive poor tips and hey can't make a living, or they are bounced out by management who compares their percentages with the rest of their staff.
Many in the service industry average 4X's minimum wage and more.
Most average about 3Xs minimum wage *including* the 2.13 - 3.30 an hour that they get paid by the restaurant. I'm speaking specifically about restaurants and not other tipped employees like hairdressers.
Maybe not at Denny's, but again, no one is making you work there. Why should we feel sorry for you and make up the difference if you choose a carreer unwisely? Waiters can make incredibly good money for a "blue collar" job that requires absolutly no education and only some on the job training. Sure, some of you will give me grief about "it's not that easy....etc, etc, etc". You're right....that's why it's called "WORK". Think it's easy to work on roofs in the summer for similar same pay? Think it's easy to pay $50K in tuition and 4 years of your life for the same pay? Compared to MANY other jobs, being a waiter is easy. America is still the land of opportunity. You can start your own business, go to school, and carve out your own life.
Well, you aren't a doctor but you could be one. Does that mean that you MUST be one?
#4. WAITERS AND WAITRESSES GET SCREWED ON TAXES
That is true sometimes.....but the IRS was forced to change the laws because of decades of abuse.
I don't disagree. We have always been required to claim every penny that we make. Not all of us do (but I do). those who don't deserve the same treatment that some tax cheating accountant get if they are caught.
It was the industry standard to report about 10% of your tips, and pocket the other 90% tax free.
This is incorrect. It was "industry standard" to claim 10% of your SALES.
Other people that try that get VERY SEVERE fines from the IRS (e.g., lets see what happens when a doctor only reports 10% of his income to the IRS).
At no time has *any* restaurant allowed it's employees to only claim 10% of their tips. You are confused.
You brought the problem upon yourselves (collectivly). How can this be reconciled??? GET AWAY FROM TIPPING ALL TOGETHER. Your income will be reported on your W2's just like most other people in this country.
My income *is* reported on my W2, broken down by tips and hourly wage, just like it is in every other restaurant. that's how I bought my house, you know.
In the mean time we can enjoy good service at a restaurant with predictable and fair pricing.
Yep, if you run the numbers, as I said, you'll find that prices will go up at least 30% to maintain the same bottom line.
#5. RESTARANTS CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY WAITERS/WAITRESSES MORE
If I pay $20 for food, and $4 for service....Couldn't I have afforded to pay $24 for food and $0 for service? This arguement holds no water at all.
That's because you don't understand food costs. It costs $3 in product costs for each $1 that you earn.
#6. PEOPLE THAT DON'T TIP ARE GREEDY
Again, are you greedy because you don't tip your doctor, airline stewardess, dentist, physical therapist, your kids' teachers, principals, janitors at the office, reservation agents, accountant, book keeper, etc.... Perhaps the just don't share your view of tipping and are sticking to their principals.
No, they are getting a free ride. I call it a form of welfare. They are relying on others to subsidize their dining out. Menu prices are determined by the current economics and pricing.
#7. PEOPLE SHOULD TIP FOR AVERAGE SERVICE
WHY??? Many people you should tip less for poor service. Why tip at all if it was poor??? That is completly illogical. Tips should be given for exceptional service. This should be the motivation for waiters and waitresses to work incredibly well and not just to get the job done.
Ahhhh, now your defending tipping as motivation. By George, I think it's starting to sink in. What happens when you remove that motivation? Dare to think about how mediocre service would become? Ever try to get help in a department store? Ever try to get your mechanic to fix something in 15 minutes and not charge you for an hour?
#8. SERVERS NEED TIPS.
I need tips too. It would be nice if my company's customers would start paying me just for doing my job, but they don't. I get by. Servers don't need tips.
Of course we do. The law is set up to allow us to be paid contrary to the rules that apply to you. This is because the government expects us to get tips to supplement our income. You wouldn't work for $3000 a year, would you? You *don't* work for $3000 a year, do you?
Servers like tips, and have come to expect them, but they do not need them. As was said above, they're making at least minimum wage
Only with tips. And if you want a minimum wage server to serve your $100 meal, then you're just nuts.
and it's their choice. If they don't like it, they can change. We live in a capitalistic society. Supply and demand should be the primary economic factors. Tipping because I feel sorry for you because your a server is a terrible thing to do.
That's because you don't tip because you feel sorry for the server, you tip because it's part of the payment arrangement. It gives you a degree of control over service, even if it's after the fact. Servers who can't give good enough service to get good tips don't survive in the business. Guess what - it's supply and demand, just like you say.
In 3rd world countries "beggers" actually hurt the economy. Sure money is coming in, but nothing is being produced, and it only encourages more people to be idle and unproductive. Doesn't the person who's eating at your resaurant need the money to stay in his pocket as much as you need it in his/hers?
Sure, but nobody is forcing you to dine in a full service restaurant. You don't believe in tipping? Fine - eat at McDonald's.
We all have economic pressure and stresses. How do you know that the guy that you're serving doesn't make as much money as you do???
Some don't. But that's their problem if they don't make $30,000 a year and are trying to eat out in full service restaurants. We are supposed to live within our means. I know that making $30,000 a year is going to limit the amount of times that I can eat out. But I'm not going to screw the server out of the MONEY THAT HE OR SHE HAS RIGHTLY EARNED.
Most servers make more money that people that work temp jobs, janitors, house cleaners, etc. Besides all of you make more than people in El Salvador....why not send 20% of your earnings to them on a regular basis?
Now you're just being silly. You might make more money than me. So why not give ME money outright? It's the same thing.
#9. MANDATORY TIPPING SHOULD BE THE NORM
Wait a minute....haven't we just heard pages and pages of posts saying that tipping creates good service. As soon as a server KNOWS he's getting 15% because it's a group of 6 or more (or whatever the restaurant's policy is), the incentive to give good service has just gone out the window.
And what happens to that incentive when they know that they are going to get paid $10 - 15 an hour just for showing up?
You spit in all the food,
Frankly, I've been in the business for 10 years and I've never seen this happen.
are slow with the drinks, etc and YOU'RE STILL GOING TO GET 15%. It goes against every "tipping theory" that's out there.
It certainly goes against the "pay the server a fixed hourly wage" idea as well.
#10. TIPPING SHOULD BE A PERCENTAGE OF THE BILL
Expensive wine is harder to pour?
Is there any *less* service than a cheaper bottle? Actually, in my previous restaurant, expensive wine was accompanied by expensive Riedel stemware which had to be washed BY HAND long after you left the restaurant.
Don't like to tip on expensive wine? Well, nobody forced you to order it.
Cavier is tougher to carry than an apetizer?
Do you have to order the cavier? No. Should you tip less on a steak than you should on a burger. Of course not.
Tipping has become standardize this way when it should never have been. Again, this thought is 100% illogical.
It is the fair way to do it. It has to be based on *something*. Why NOT the price of the bill? You have total control over how much you spend.
#11. EVERYONE IS DOING IT
Weren't we taught to avoid caving in to peer pressure??? Why do we do so now???
Because it's backed by the law of the land. The government allows less than minimum wage hour wages for tipped employees. Few other jobs are allowed that sort of payment scheme.
AFTERTHOUGHT....
I do tip...after I eat, I hand my wallet to my wife and she pays the tip. I view tipping as encouraging the perpetuation of a system that is broken. She view it as helping someone out that isn't very fortunate.
She's wrong. It's a moral obligation to pay for services rendered, just like where the money from your wallet came from. You received wages for services rendered. It's just that you got your full salary from your company, because that's the way the economic realities of your job is set up.
She feels sorry for the waiters/waitresses.
Well, that's misguided and wrong. I feel sorry for her attitude. I deserve to get paid for my job, just like her husband does. It's just that it's broken down differently when it comes to the price of the product. It's not good or bad, it just *is*.
I tip because it makes my wife happy. We should have the option of paying for the food and picking it up ourselves.
You do. It's called McDonald's.
Filling our own drinks as we want them,
It's called buffet.
and letting the servers know that upfront.
Once again, buffet.
They're happy (they're not wasting time and energy on us) and we're happy, as we don't have to pay them to carry food 20 feet. The fact is that there is not a good solution. The government is not going to institute sweeping change, and social change will not occur spontaneously enough to create change.
That's correct. That's because the system, as imperfect as it is (and every system has its imperfections, even *your* job, whatever it is), is actually a win/win. The guest has a direct impact on the level of service (and gets a break on food costs) and the server gets paid, and the restaurant gets to open up without the burden of a HUGE payroll. If the system changed, many restaurants would never even get the financing to open, as it's already a very difficult thing to get venture capital for (AND, more importantly, the percentage of payroll is part of the equation from the get go).
In the mean time there will remain the people that willingly tip, the ones that grudgingly tip, and those who don't tip for various reasons.
In the 10 years I've been in the business, I've NEVER been tipped nothing. EVER. I average about 18% before tipout.
And that's my rebuttal. It sounds to me like you've got a serious chip on your shoulder from you days in the "service industry". Shame about that. |
teleburst
New member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 514
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 02:45 am: |
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"Our restaurant has 10 - 13 servers, two bartenders 5 backwaiters and 3 food runners, each of them averaging about 6 hours per shift".
Just a clarification - I was referring to the number of personnel PER SHIFT. We actually have something like 35 servers, 10 bartenders and barbacks, 13 backwaiters and 8 foodrunners. |
m_shaw
New member
Username: m_shaw
Post Number: 29
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 04:11 pm: |
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"We *do* claim that we are paid by the employer as little as $2.13 an hour. That's why we consider tipping "mandatory". As I have explained over and over, menu prices reflect these lower wages. "
Myth , the employeer must make up the difference if you dont recieve tips equal to minimum wage.
Menu prices reflect what the restaurant owner wants to charge.
"No, food prices would rise by over 30%. Look at it this way - the largest segment of any restaurant is the waitstaff, which is paid 2.13 - 4.50 an hour. Now raise all of those manhours by $10 to $12 and see where food prices go"
They servers wouldn be paid that much the market would dictate the pay. Food prices would stay the same or actually lower once all costs are fixed .
Should we tip an airline pilot for getting us there safely?
Nope. Because he makes $100,000+ already.
The introductoin of low cost airlines has lowered the pay for pilots .
We think it's acceptable to get paid for our services. We think that you're DAMN LUCKY to have a say in it. Imagine if there were no incentive to give good service.
And the person who determines your worth is the customer , There is incentive to give good service , its called the unemployment line.
That's because you don't tip because you feel sorry for the server, you tip because it's part of the payment arrangement.
The customer has no such arrangement with a server , they are not independant contractors , they are employees of the owner of the establishment and his responsibility.
But I'm not going to screw the server out of the MONEY THAT HE OR SHE HAS RIGHTLY EARNED.
Like I have said before the customer determines the worth of the servers efforts and it is reflected in the tip.
It is the fair way to do it. It has to be based on *something*. Why NOT the price of the bill? You have total control over how much you spend.
The fair way would for the server to tell the customer that they want 15 dollars for waiting on them up front when the customer is seated.
Because it's backed by the law of the land. The government allows less than minimum wage hour wages for tipped employees. Few other jobs are allowed that sort of payment scheme.
There is no "law " that requires a person to leave a tip.
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teleburst
New member
Username: teleburst
Post Number: 515
Registered: 06-2003
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 05:59 pm: |
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"We *do* claim that we are paid by the employer as little as $2.13 an hour. That's why we consider tipping "mandatory". As I have explained over and over, menu prices reflect these lower wages. "
Myth , the employeer must make up the difference if you dont recieve tips equal to minimum wage.
Only to minimum wage. If you want to be waited on by minimum wage workers, good luck to you.
Menu prices reflect what the restaurant owner wants to charge.
No, just like in *your* business, menu prices reflect the costs of the business *and* market realities. You're not much of a businessman, are you? Or are you just ignorant of general business principles.
"No, food prices would rise by over 30%. Look at it this way - the largest segment of any restaurant is the waitstaff, which is paid 2.13 - 4.50 an hour. Now raise all of those manhours by $10 to $12 and see where food prices go"
They servers wouldn be paid that much the market would dictate the pay. Food prices would stay the same or actually lower once all costs are fixed .
Nope. You aren't too bright are you? If the cost of your trucks went from, say $40,000 to $150,000 and you had to play your drivers double on top of that, do you think that your prices would stay the same? I DON'T THINK SO. Hell, a little goose in the futures price and you guys gouge us unmercifully.
Should we tip an airline pilot for getting us there safely?
Nope. Because he makes $100,000+ already.
The introductoin of low cost airlines has lowered the pay for pilots .
Not to minimum wage <chuckle>.
We think it's acceptable to get paid for our services. We think that you're DAMN LUCKY to have a say in it. Imagine if there were no incentive to give good service.
And the person who determines your worth is the customer , There is incentive to give good service , its called the unemployment line.
You haven't been in a lot of restaurants lately, have you?
That's because you don't tip because you feel sorry for the server, you tip because it's part of the payment arrangement.
The customer has no such arrangement with a server , they are not independant contractors , they are employees of the owner of the establishment and his responsibility.
We are *equivalent* to an independent contractor.
It *is* part of the payment arrangement, which is why we have this board in the first place. *You* know that you're supposed to tip, even if you don't like it.
But I'm not going to screw the server out of the MONEY THAT HE OR SHE HAS RIGHTLY EARNED.
Like I have said before the customer determines the worth of the servers efforts and it is reflected in the tip.
Ahhhh, so there *is* a financial arrangement between the guest and the server. Thank you for proving it.
It is the fair way to do it. It has to be based on *something*. Why NOT the price of the bill? You have total control over how much you spend.
The fair way would for the server to tell the customer that they want 15 dollars for waiting on them up front when the customer is seated.
I see. A person spending $8 for lunch now has to give $15 to get served. I see that you have a lot of practice in gouging.
Because it's backed by the law of the land. The government allows less than minimum wage hour wages for tipped employees. Few other jobs are allowed that sort of payment scheme.
There is no "law " that requires a person to leave a tip.
This is correct. There is a lwa that supports the principle though. It's either a "gratuity" or a "payment for services". Which is it?
I don't know why you're so stupid that you want to pay 30% more for your dinner *and* lose most of the control that you have over the service.
Most of what you write smacks of someone who doesn't have very much experience dining out. <shrug> |
m_shaw
New member
Username: m_shaw
Post Number: 30
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 07:58 pm: |
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We *do* claim that we are paid by the employer as little as $2.13 an hour. That's why we consider tipping "mandatory". As I have explained over and over, menu prices reflect these lower wages.
Sam Walton built an empire on Low Prices and good service . The restaurants should follow his lead , Wal Mart employees make up to 7 dollars an per hour.
If you want to be waited on by minimum wage workers, good luck to you.
No good luck to you , if I or my assosiates dont leave tips , YOU are that minimum wage employee.
Nope. You aren't too bright are you?
YOU wait tables , not I
If the cost of your trucks went from, say $40,000 to $150,000
They have over time.
and you had to play your drivers double on top of that,
Yes , thats called double time , and my drivers make that on Sundays and holidays.
do you think that your prices would stay the same?
They can , buy futures early out and cover with mercs , and If you as a customer buy a price protection plan I quarentee your price even if I lose money.
I DON'T THINK SO. Hell, a little goose in the futures price and you guys gouge us unmercifully
Ye of little knowledge , thats the traders on the floor , not the last reseller .
That's because you don't tip because you feel sorry for the server, you tip because it's part of the payment arrangement.
Actually thats the reason why I leave a tip , when I dine I think of poor guys like you and leave a bit the the unfortunate soul
We are *equivalent* to an independent contractor.
Far from it , you dont carry liability insurance ,you are told what to do , when to do it and how to do it, you are a person who works by the hour and pick up what token amount I wish to leave you.
Like I have said before the customer determines the worth of the servers efforts and it is reflected in the tip.
Ahhhh, so there *is* a financial arrangement between the guest and the server. Thank you for proving it.
The only financial arrangement is my charity .
I don't know why you're so stupid that you want to pay 30% more for your dinner *and* lose most of the control that you have over the service.
Like I said , I leave the tip , you wait the table , stupid is what stupid does.
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teleburst
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Username: teleburst
Post Number: 516
Registered: 06-2003
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 07:36 am: |
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After reading this post, it's obvious that "Mr. Shaw" is a simple troll. And a nasty piece of work as well. And not too bright to boot. |
m_shaw
New member
Username: m_shaw
Post Number: 31
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 03:36 pm: |
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I only attack after I have attacked , I have never gone after someone until after they make statements against me . Teleburst I must have hit a nerve , and that truth must hurt.
A tip is not an entitlement , the customer has the option to tip or not , that just like tipping itself wont change soon. You make think waiting tables is difficult , it is a basic labor job. |
scarlett
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Username: scarlett
Post Number: 280
Registered: 01-2003
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 07:06 pm: |
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teleburst, ignore him. As you said, he's a troll as you pointed out.
Walmart? My family boycotts Walmart. They are anti-union and their employees are routinely denied the amount of hours needed to qualify for any health care benefits. Many Walmart employees need to get food stamps in order to feed their own families.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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xxnitsuaxx
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Username: xxnitsuaxx
Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 07:14 pm: |
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Shaw. If you wish to denigrate servers and the job that they perform, I ask only that you learn basic rules of grammar and punctuation. Once your replies are constructed with some semblance of coherence you will only be thought of as a pretentious blowhard who masks his insecurities by spewing vitriolic bile on anyone he views as beneath him (sort of the "cabin boy kicking the dog" syndrome); instead of a pretentious blowhard with a failure to grasp the basics (much less the vagaries) of the English language. |
scarlett
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Username: scarlett
Post Number: 282
Registered: 01-2003
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 07:22 pm: |
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xxnitsuaxx, now poor M_shaw will have to find a dictionary! His attention to detail is surprising when one considers that he claims to own a business.
I'm so glad I'm just a stupid server. No one expects me to reed and spel gud.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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m_shaw
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Username: m_shaw
Post Number: 32
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 6 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 09:04 pm: |
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Like I have said in a previous post , I attack those who attack me , as for those who think they deserve tips , think that all you want , if you are so unhappy with what you recieve as a GRATUITY , then go and get a better paying job. But I do have some bad news for you , those better paying jobs require you to work , most require a high school or even better a college education and years of training. Or, god forbid ,
since at least one of you knows so much of the restaurant business, mortage that house to the hill , and gamble it all and start your own business .
Its a minimum wage job that you took of your own free will , tips may be expected , but are not required . Do I look down at wait staff ? I look down at someone looking for handouts , Tips are handouts , plain and simple , I leave a tip because I feel sorry for you . The person I have tipped ,and rather well is the Chef himself , the person who creates the meal deserves my gratitude , not the person who carries a few plates and pours a few drinks.
This discussion board just makes me feel that much better when I leave little or nothing for a tip , it may be one of you that just served my meal. |
teleburst
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Username: teleburst
Post Number: 519
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 09:08 am: |
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"Like I have said in a previous post , I attack those who attack me , as for those who think they deserve tips , think that all you want , if you are so unhappy with what you recieve as a GRATUITY , then go and get a better paying job".
And you're STILL wrong. A tip is *not* a gratuity or a gift or a "handout", regardless of what the labor codes say. If they were, they wouldn't be taxable. Since you're a "businessman", you should know a little about the tax laws.
Also, I guess I've never waited on you since I've never *not* been left a tip. But I wouldn't want to be you dining in your community. You must get the service that you pay for, because there are only so many bridges you can burn, especially in the small community that you must live and work in. No wonder you're so bitter. |
scarlett
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Username: scarlett
Post Number: 284
Registered: 01-2003
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 08:07 pm: |
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teleburst, I wouldn't worry too much about m_shaw; he probably thinks "fine dining" is a plastic fork AND a plastic spoon instead of a spork.
m_Shaw, gramatically , it is "AS I said" not "Like I said" Keep on showing us your ignorance; we need a good laugh. Counting up all those tips is hard work.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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jammie
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Username: jammie
Post Number: 107
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 07:40 am: |
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I wish to point out to m_shaw, as I have three or four times in other threads. It is not just us servers expecting a handout.Every job I have been hired at, I was told the rate of pay plus tips.So management expects you to tip their servers as well.I guess this system wasnt invented by Teleburst!!!! |
m_shaw
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Username: m_shaw
Post Number: 33
Registered: 03-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 07:11 pm: |
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Now we are getting there , by Jammie's admission a tip is a handout. I expect my customers to tip my service men , I may expect it , that doesn't mean its going to happen. Yes I do know its not just servers expecting a handout , I could make a few comparisons , but it realy isnt necessary, now is it ? |
teleburst
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Username: teleburst
Post Number: 523
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 07:55 pm: |
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"Now we are getting there , by Jammie's admission a tip is a handout. I expect my customers to tip my service men , I may expect it , that doesn't mean its going to happen. Yes I do know its not just servers expecting a handout , I could make a few comparisons , but it realy isnt necessary, now is it?"
If it were a "handout", it wouldn't be taxable. That's the end of *that* story. |
jammie
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Username: jammie
Post Number: 109
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 10:16 am: |
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Wait just one minute,you m-shaw,were the one who made referance to a "handout." That is why I phrased my post as such.
Let me explain my point, Im sure that everyone else understood.
Managers and bussinness owners alike expect the guests to tip their employees. Its not just the servers/bartenders.Simple enough? When I am hired these are the terms of payment. Not set forth by me, but my employer.
Now if your service people were paid $2.13 an hour, and your fees were much lower. Then yes they should expect a tip.However that is not what is happening in your industry.Unlike mine. |
scarlett
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Username: scarlett
Post Number: 287
Registered: 01-2003
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 10:52 am: |
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Jammie, M_shaw doesn't get it, and is probably too dense to ever get it. He's a boor, a moron, a troll and is no better than a theif, accepting the services of his wait person but not paying for those services.
A tip is NOT a handout; it's a payment for services rendered. None of us servers want charity or a handout. What all of us do want is to be fairly compensated for our service. In the USA, compensation comes in the form of a tip. It should be called a commission, because that is what it really is. It's one of the only tranactions where the consumer of the product determines the amount of the renumeration.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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m_shaw
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Username: m_shaw
Post Number: 34
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 05:03 pm: |
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My dear Scarlet , do you not know ? Its I before E excetp after C . It is THIEF , not " THEIF " .
And "BOOR" I do not believe is correct either. What you describe is a service charge , not a "TIP" " and frankly Scarlet I don't give a damn" Great Movie P
And Jamie you say
Now if your service people were paid $2.13 an hour, and your fees were much lower. Then yes they should expect a tip.However that is not what is happening in your industry.Unlike mine
What does the rate of pay have to do with it , thats what you agreed to work for. If I told my potential employeees I paid $ 2.13 an hour they wouldnt accept the job, I hire quality employees by promising them either a a set wage per week or a hourly wage . Plus benifits and bonuses.
As far as "expecting" a tip , your employer can not promise that the customers will tip.
Lets face facts here , the customer may tip if they feel so inclined , if they do not , they have not "stolen" your services , your employer is required to make up the difference up to minimum wage. Thats the law . If you feel that you are worth more than that , then good for you. But it is still the CUSTOMER that has the final say. |
scarlett
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Username: scarlett
Post Number: 289
Registered: 01-2003
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 08:46 pm: |
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Ah, yes, one error before coffee; oh well my grammer, spelling and punctuation is still far superior to yours. And yes, GWTW is a great movie; we have it on tape. My nicky Scarlett is from my cat named Scarlett who was named for Scarlett O'Hara. She has gone on to the Rainbow Bridge, but we still have her litter sister Melanie and her foster daughter Tara.
Jammie is correct however. We work for a base minimum plus tips, just as any salesperson works for commission plus a draw. It is a very bad server indeed who cannot earn far in excess of the minimum wage.
While a tip is voluntary, as Teleburst pointed out, we don't have to wait on you. We have the right to refuse service to anyone except for reasons of race, religion, ethnicity or sex.
If you get good service and do not leave a tip you are a thief; (Please note I said GOOD service. I do not feel bad service deserves a tip.) It's like going to your mechanic and agreeing to pay for parts but not labor.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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jammie
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Username: jammie
Post Number: 111
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 20, 2004 - 10:11 pm: |
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m_shaw, I also wouldnt work for minimum wage, much less $2.13 an hour.In our industry if you want quality help, the pay must be much greater than $2.13 an hour.In the form of tips. Thats right I said it, you the guest pays our wages. I am a quality server, with good work ethics. Thats how I make a nice living doing this.
I have left jobs because I didnt make what I knew my potential earnings were.I wasnt greatful to have a job. I wanted to make serious cash. And that I do my dear man!!!!!!!
Sounds to me you might be a little envious.
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teleburst
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Username: teleburst
Post Number: 524
Registered: 06-2003
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 01:19 am: |
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"And "BOOR" I do not believe is correct either".
It certainly is. It means peasant.That's hitting the nail on the head stuff.
If you were thinking "bore", well, that too... |
jammie
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Username: jammie
Post Number: 113
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 09:56 am: |
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m_shaw, I didnt agree to work for $2.13 an hour.I agreed to work for $2.13 an hour plus tips.
Yes, the guest has the final say in what amount of gratuity is left.From the looks of things they are thinking I have earned a decent gratuity.I assume this because I just bought a house on my income alone.So I guess the bank thinks so too.I really dont believe the lending institution would finance 159 thousand dollars on a fly by night earning scheme. They consider this as real income. With the potential to keep earning.
Not only us servers/bartenders, managers, owners think the guests will tip. Other agencies completly seperate from the resteraunt industry expect that a server will be tipped to add to income.
I really think we may have something here.
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m_shaw
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Username: m_shaw
Post Number: 35
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 10:10 am: |
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Jammie is correct however. We work for a base minimum plus tips, just as any salesperson works for commission plus a draw.
But a salesman that works on commission and a draw owes the ammount of the draw to the employeer if his comissions do not cover the draw . There is no comparison .
While a tip is voluntary, as Teleburst pointed out, we don't have to wait on you. We have the right to refuse service to anyone except for reasons of race, religion, ethnicity or sex.
I dont believe the owner of the establishment will give you that much power , allowing you, the server, to make a unilateral decision to refuse service to one of his customers. That is a management decision , any business owner that would allow a server to randomly refuse to serve a customer would be opening his business up to discrimination lawsuits.
I wanted to make serious cash. And that I do my dear man!!!!!!!
And what you consider serious cash for a days work? $100, $300, $1500. To me serious has 5 zeros behind it
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catsmeow
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Username: catsmeow
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 12:10 pm: |
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ok.... all of this is insane. first of all, if people come into a restaurant and do NOT tip, then yes, we make less than minimum wage. however, most people have more manners than that. infact, i make 2.13 an hour. now, my point of view is that a tip is included in your expense of going out to eat, if you do not wish to tip, make your own food. as a server, i am very polite and always give good service. if you recive bad service, then no you should not tip 15-20%. but most servers will not give bad service because we are actors. we are trying to make money!
we do not claim %10 of our tips. We claim 10% of our SALES. big difference, and when you order expensive wine and caviar, it jacks up our sales, which means we have to claim more, which means, we get less of the little pay check we already recieve. my pay check tends to be aroud $4 a week, if that puts anything in perspective.
Second, yes the first time you dont tip, we wont be rude to you, because those who dont tip usually run out of the restaurant like a coward before we get a chance to notice. but if you ever come back....its on! there is nothing to say we have to get you extra anything, refills, no seasoning on that, and can i have extra cheese and no tomatoes. we infact dont have to do anything, and every server in there will know how cheap you are. bottom line, if you dont want to tip, dont go out to eat.
now i am getting rather angry with people who are implying that serving is not hard work. have you ever done it? let me tell you i am 21 years old, and my joints should not ache. my back should not hurt and feet kill me when i get off work. as a 21 year old, when i get off on friday night i should want to go out. however, i am so tired from work that a lot of times i go home to sleep. you carry ice, trays, glass racks....ect. all day, while putting on a fake smile to all these fat people who come in there and treat you as less than human just because you are a waitress. only to have $1 buck left on the table, now what is that going to buy me?????
"dont go out the house if ya mama didnt teach you no manners" |
catsmeow
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Username: catsmeow
Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 12:20 pm: |
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oh and onother thing.... when you see a 12% gratutity added to 8 or more. you must keep in mind that the gratuity is added BEFORE taxes... which makes it less then a 10% tip... gratuity is just to be sure that we do not bust our butts for a bunch of people, and not get a penny out of it. and its a servers choice whether or not to add gratuity, sometimes we dont because we think you will tip better than the gratuity. |
xxnitsuaxx
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Username: xxnitsuaxx
Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 04:40 pm: |
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shaw...in an earlier post you disparaged scarlett for forgetting the "i before e" rule, evidently not noticing that you forgot the rule when you so idiotically typed "what you recieve as a GRATUITY". There's a multitude of pejoratives that could be used to describe you, but I believe most of them would go over your head. Therefore, I'm forced to use the term "dipshit", because it's probably the only one you understand. What's more, by constantly reinforcing the fact that you look down on waiters you expose your own insecurity. If you must "feel sorry" for those in the service industry in order to make it through the day there must be a reason. What is it shaw...size of your genitalia, wife run off with another man, poor education, did you get made fun of in high school? The possibilities are endless. Judging from some of your comments I assume that you were poor growing up, that you never had anything nice and that you always felt inferior. This left you with deep-rooted feelings of insecurity that are exacerbated by the idea that other people may be more successful than you. The only way that you can get over such feelings is by making (to you) "serious cash". Give your insecurities a rest shaw. I wait tables so that I have money to go skiing and go to concerts while in school. My dad is a health care attorney that pays in taxes what you consider to be "serious cash". It's always the people who are the most insecure about money that feel the biggest need to talk about it. I'm comfortable with my wealth and with the fact that the average starting salary out of my law school is $125,000. I'm 23. Your money is merely a stopgap measure shaw and will do nothing for you in the long run. If you need a dictionary for disparage I'll post a good online site for you. |
teleburst
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Username: teleburst
Post Number: 525
Registered: 06-2003
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 06:07 pm: |
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"And what you consider serious cash for a days work? $100, $300, $1500. To me serious has 5 zeros behind it"
Which of course is why you spend so much time on a tipping board bitching about a few dollars, right?
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scarlett
New member
Username: scarlett
Post Number: 290
Registered: 01-2003
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 10:40 pm: |
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"...salesman that works on commission and a draw owes the ammount of the draw to the employeer if his comissions do not cover the draw .." (BTW it's spelled amount, with one m.)
Look at your own words M_Shaw You said "...if his comissions do not cover the draw... " Well, the wait person has made the sale, but you are saying you won't pay the "commission". I repeat if you receive good service and do not tip correctly you are no better than a thief.
Just as our guests have the right to request a particular server, a server also has the right to refuse to serve a particular guest so long as it is not because of their race, ethnicity or sex. If a waiter refuses to serve you because you failed to tip him, it is indeed his right to do so. A good manager will indeed support his/her staff because they want to keep good workers. Sorry, you lose again.
Don't tip your server because you feel sorry for him/her. We don't want charity. Tip your server because he/she gave good service.
And once again, may I point out I spell Scarlett with a double t.
xxnitsuaxx I think maybe M_Shaw is not a business owner but a gas station attendant who either couldn't get a job as a waiter or lost his lady love to a waiter so now he trolls waiter boards showing his ignorance.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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jammie
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Username: jammie
Post Number: 115
Registered: 06-2003
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 09:04 am: |
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I know m_shaw will more than likely dispute ths, but here it goes anyway. Managers/owners usually dont want the no tipping element as guests either.They do want to keep their waitstaff happy.Usually the miserable ogre that doesnt tip isnt a high dollar tab. Water with extra lemon and 12 equal, to make lemonaid. (free). Complain about the food, its not cooked right etc. Hoping to get a meal comped.There might be a fly appearing in the soup, had it not come out of the ogres pocket the soup would have been fine.Dont forget the extra this and extra that.
By the time its said and done, there is not alot of profit (if any) and a ton of aggravation.I know some may find this hard to beleive but management doesnt want anything to do with this type.
For those who are ignorant and cheap enough not to tip, nobody wants to wait on you, or have you as a guest, in their establishment.These kind have no shame,and one way or another try to get one over, to save a buck. |
m_shaw
New member
Username: m_shaw
Post Number: 36
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 08:54 pm: |
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No my dear Scarlett , that dress doesnt make you look fat , all your clothes make you look that way. But you are partially correct , I do on occasion pump gas , I have 1 small gas station I bought last year and I have 1 pump for full service , some of my senior customers had difficulty doing self serve.
Anyway , Jamie , I talked with a customer of mine , ( owns 3 restaurants) He realy doesn't care if a customer tips or not , as long as they pay their bill and the customer is happy , the owner is happy. You call the customer a "guest" that I find interesting, if someone is my guest , I would not expect them to pay a bill let alone leave a tip. My customer is extremely sucessful,he tells me that the supply of wait staff is unlimited , he gets 10 applications a day. His employees know if they screw up , they are out the door and are replaced the next day. |
teleburst
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Username: teleburst
Post Number: 533
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 11:48 pm: |
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Now we *know* that m_shaw is full of it. |
scarlett
New member
Username: scarlett
Post Number: 295
Registered: 01-2003
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 06:05 am: |
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That's for sure Teleburst. The dolt has never heard of paying guests.(FYI M_Shaw, in the hospitality industry, we have what is called paying guests, just a social worker or a stock broker has clients and a doctor has patients.) No real restauranteer has so little disreguard for thier employees as to be indifferent to their earning potential. Every owner I have worked for knows that if the wait people don't make money they will quit and go where they do. If a restaurant gets a reputation as one where the tips are poor, finding quality wait people becomes impossible.
BTW M_Shaw, the word is spelled "really". I know of another ignorant boor who continuously mispells it with one "L". He's a liar and a blowhard too.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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scarlett
New member
Username: scarlett
Post Number: 296
Registered: 01-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 06:09 am: |
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Sorry, I meant to say so little regard, not disreguard.My bad. Time to go to sleep.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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jammie
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Username: jammie
Post Number: 121
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 07:11 am: |
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Come on Scarlett, in m_shaw land (population 1) Im sure the owner of 3 restaurants doesnt give a crap about the lowly employees. He or She more than likely doesnt need any help operating his establishmnets.
Now you and I know that these owners rely on their staff.They simply cant be there all the time, muchless 3 places at once |
m_shaw
New member
Username: m_shaw
Post Number: 37
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 08:18 pm: |
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You havent figured it out yet have you ? EMPLOYEES are replacable , customers are not. You think that you mean that much to your employeer? Go ahead , tell the customer that since they dont tip well ,YOU wont serve them. I dont believe any one of the servers has the courage to do so. I also know that the restaurant owners talk to each other, black listing is against the law , but it does exist. Go ahead next time you get a low tip or none at at all , stand up and tell that customer they are a thief , no better than a welfare cheat, that they stole your services , sing it loud so that the whole establishment will hear , and watch the owner / manager run over to back you up. P.S. dont let the door hit you in the butt as YOU ARE FIRED . I can hear all the big talk on this board , but I doubt any of the servers has the nerve to stand up to the customer , or the boss. |
scarlett
New member
Username: scarlett
Post Number: 297
Registered: 01-2003
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 11:44 pm: |
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Been there, done that and was backed up by the owner. He told them to eat at McDonald's, they were not welcome at his restaurant.
Sorry, but any real restauranteer wants quality employees.They don't want the type of dining guest who is too cheap to leave a tip. As was already pointed out, that type of person is also the type who is looking for a free meal and in the long run doesn't make the restaurant a penny. You (and they) are persona non grata at any decent restaurant.(You know, the kind where wait people and kitchen personell wash their hands and they have a Class A health certificate. Not the grimy dives where junkies and rejects work that you're allowed in.)
Enjoy your Big Mac Troll.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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teleburst
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Username: teleburst
Post Number: 535
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 03:12 am: |
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"I can hear all the big talk on this board"
...a lot of it being *yours* of course... |
mplsraisin
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Username: mplsraisin
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 07:18 pm: |
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I have been reading this board with much interest over the last six months. I have been reluctant to register until I started reading the utter nonsense put forth by m_shaw. I have been in the "biz" for about eight years and have done it all - cook, server, bartender, and management. A little more background: I have not only a high school diploma, but a bachelor's degree from a major research university; my jobs in the service industry have, because they are generally flexible with regard to schedule, have gotten me this far and hopefully through graduate school; I make an honest and decent living; and I enjoy it. I have dealt with every kind of person there is: poor, rich, cheap, generous, rude, thoughtful, black, white - name them and I've dealt with them. I hope I never have to deal with m_shaw (although I have many times dealt with his kind). I just wanted to introduce myself and am looking forward to participating in this board. As for m_shaw, I don't know why any of us have wasted as much time as we have on somebody as obviously ignorant as he is. I guess that I, of all people, should understand that education is many times a long process. That said, should he ever become a regular in my bar or restaurant, I hope he doesn't wonder where all the mediocre service came from. And I sure hope he never leaves his credit card or favorite baseball cap on the table when he leaves after stiffing me and struggles to comprehend how we could lose such things when he returns for them. I look forward to more enlightening discourse.... |
m_shaw
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Username: m_shaw
Post Number: 38
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 27, 2004 - 09:38 pm: |
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My dear ScarleTT (there are your 2 t's) I like fries with my big mac, Mr. Raisin (for short ) I DO NOT wear baseball caps , my credit card is accepted all over the world , Benny Franklins are accepted in countries that you would dream of visiting . Congratulations on your education, a lot of my employees have 4 year degrees and then some , I hire the best and pay for the best , yup sum of them people I higher have a better edumucation than me, but I sign their pay check . Being educated and being smart are two worlds apart. The smart people take the risk and hire the educated to do a job. Ignorant ? I would describe myself as demanding , when I dine I expect not good service , but great service , that I will tip for , anything less I leave very little. It is still a minimimum job that you accepted by your own free will . P.S. Credit cards are for those who cant afford to pay cash |
teleburst
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Username: teleburst
Post Number: 537
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 08:48 am: |
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"but I sign their pay check"
So you claim. Me, I race Ferarris in my spare time. Yes, you'd know my name if I posted it. I also climbed K2 last year and I pay more in taxes than your company is worth. I also leap tall buildings at a single bound.
<snigger> |
mplsraisin
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Username: mplsraisin
Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 03:18 pm: |
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I get it, m_shaw, you have money and money must make you important (are you a 'Ranger' or 'Pioneer' contributor to W's campaign??). Anyway, at least you did not deny being ignorant and I know alot of demanding people who are cheap. Yeah, I have an expensive piece of paper hanging on my wall, but I would estimate that 98.2% (or more) of what I know about the world was not learned in classrooms or books. The service industry provides quite the free education - I have an unofficial proctology degree as well - feel free to look that one up. Speaking of doctors, next time you get a physical, m_shaw, why don't you have your doctor sew up a certain hole so your head won't fit up there any more. Don't worry, you're already full of it. And yep, ALL of our Benny Franklins are accepted just about anywhere - not just yours and any idiot with a bank card bearing a Visa logo can make a purchase overseas. I should know, I actually had to request page extensions on my passport because it is full. I estimate that I have had to wait on one TIPPING customer for every mile I have traveled in my life and considering I have been on every continent except for Australia and Antarctica that's alot of customers and miles...quite the education! Not all of us can afford Tijuana, m_shaw. Chew on that one while you're sitting in your construction trailer on your lunch break..... |
m_shaw
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Username: m_shaw
Post Number: 39
Registered: 03-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 06:08 pm: |
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but I would estimate that 98.2% (or more) of what I know about the world was not learned in classrooms or books.
And what is 98.2% of nothing ?
I have an unofficial proctology degree as well - feel free
And you unoffically practice on yourself how often?
any idiot with a bank card bearing a Visa logo can make a purchase overseas. I should know
Good we have that much settled .
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mplsraisin
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Username: mplsraisin
Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 03:04 pm: |
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Proctology, m_shaw, is a humorous reference to the types of people that we in the service industry often have to deal with. And as much as I like your unoriginal and cliche responses to these posts, let's get back to the matter at hand and why you think tipping is bogus. I'm ready. |
jammie
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Username: jammie
Post Number: 125
Registered: 06-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 06:55 am: |
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mpisrasin, becuase he is cheap and thinks he is superior to all of people who make an honest living waiting tables.And is trying to justify it with a bunch af dribble.
Anserw your question? |
goldenfoxx
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Username: goldenfoxx
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 06:28 am: |
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Hello,
I found this thread fascinating so I thought I might try to add to it. I have been involved in many aspects of the restaurant industry (Cashier, Server, bartender, and Manager) and thought I could add to this discussion;
[I’m assuming that hibby76 and m_shaw are the same person. Please correct me if this is otherwise.]
I think hiiby76 is looking at it wrong. He tends to view tipping as some kind of formal begging procedure. That servers are the nstitutionalized version of someone coming to your car window and washing it for you with a dirty paper towel and some “questionable” cleaner. His comment is that he is happy not paying servers because all they do is “carry food 20 feet.” I can tell you that although he says that he worked in the service industry, he has never worked as a server or bartender…or busser for that matter. If all I was doing was carrying food a couple a feet a night, I would agree with hibby76. And I wouldn’t have to use heating pads on my feet and legs and collapse into exhaustion after just a seven hour shift.
Im suprised that hibby76 doesnt prefer tipping servers. It seems to me from reading his message that he likes to be in control of the situation and that is really what tipping is. Would you rather pay $25 dollars for a plate with the service charge included or would you rather pay $20 for a plate and leave the service charge dependant on how you felt the service was. Seems like the ball is in your court. The problem is you are seeing the plate not as a $25 dollar plate, or a $25 dollar plate minus the five dollar service charge that comes to $20 dollars, you are seeing the $20 dollar plate and complaining because the service charge is not included in the price already. Well of course not, the service charge is discretionary and left up to you. It’s a PREFORMANCE based job that servers and bartenders do and the person who Decides is YOU.
Doesn’t that make you happy. Doesn’t that just make your little Scrouge heart skip a beat.
Imagine if you will, the DMV offices, performance based; They would open the door for you when you got there and greet you warmly. You could walk in and the personnel up front would race to see who would help you first. They would quickly answer the phone and informatively answer any questions you might have. They would escort you to the line that you require, briefly going over all the information you will need. They would seat you in a nice comfy chair, depending on where you wanted to seat in the office. Another attendant would come up to you while you where lounging and quickly and efficiently answer all your questions about the requirements you will need to register your car, take your drivers test or whatever your heart desires (because it was much easier for you to ask the attendant than to actually read what was on the information packets). Then you would request that you really didn’t like the test that you were required to take to pass your drivers test, and could you please get a new one or better yet could you make me a unique one. As you are doing the custom test or paperwork, the attendant comes over to sharpen your pencil or adjust your seat cushions to your desire. Then after all is said and done, you comment that the custom test took a little too locg to get to you (never mind that they you specially ordered it.) and could you please see the manager. The manager comes over and after listening to your comment, takes the driving test fee off the bill, apologizes and then offers some other test for you to take...”on the house”. You leave and casually flip a $5.00 dollar bill on the table for their attempts to please you. After all, you were so reasonable, you let them pick up the tab for the test.
Ahhhh…sigh…such a beautiful dream. The reality is much rougher though. Waiting for hours on end as you are shuffled through lines, meet with baffling paperwork and have the slowest people in the universe help you. Imagine the next restraunt you go into to be DMV themed. Scary isnt it?
Or you mentioned blue collar job…whoa…thank you so much. People sitting around making $40 - $50 dollars an hour, billing 10-12 hour days and working 2-3 hours. I worked for a construction company for a while (you know a real job) and had to leave because I was getting paid the same amount of money as serving and could not work with the unethical bastards around me. CYA and Im on break…no thank you.
Oh…I love this comment too…I have to disagree with you on this one
>>>Sam Walton built an empire on Low Prices and >>>good service. The restaurants should follow >>>his lead, Wal Mart employees make up to 7 >>>dollars an per hour.
Have you ever actually been into a Wal-Mart? Well I have…twice…Once when I was trying to buy two way radios and once to buy Q-tips. And I can tell you Wal-Mart is NOT BUILT ON GOOD SERVICE. These guys would last a day as a server…I wouldn’t give them twenty minutes at a Host stand. You do get what you pay for, and when you pay for minimum wage employees you get that quality of person. The first time I was baffled by my electronics expert who could barely speak English tell me about the virtues of the two-way radios. “oh..yes those are very good….yes those are good too” and the second time the lady couldn’t tell me where the Q-tips where…”Over there somewhere” with some vague hand waving. I will never repeat the experience. Wal-Mart is for Bottom feeders and if you think that you are getting the greatest deal because you shaved $40 dollars off your new TV you obviously don’t have a clue what you are doing in the long run.
Its ironic. The ones you should be feeling sorry for is the Wal-Mart employees, yet you feel bad tipping your waiter. I would feel bad taking your money as well since you shisted it off some immigrant working at Wal-Mart.
Basically, serving and bartending is a performance job, where the bulk of the compensation is paid and controlled by the client. The system is set up in the guests interest. If the guest feel that the server did poorly, don’t tip. I certainly wouldn’t. But don’t moan and bitch because you actually have to pay out what you owe. You should just count your lucky star that you yourself are not in a performance based industry.
Oh, one more thing Wal-Mart sucks and it and all the other Taco-Bell mentality corporations should adopt a new philosophy. There can be only one at the bottom and the race makes everyone lose.
Sorry for the long post eveyone. |
mplsraisin
New member
Username: mplsraisin
Post Number: 37
Registered: 08-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 02:32 pm: |
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Do away with tipping and this is what I actually see happening - servers paid on commission much like a salesperson at a department store or an insurance salesperson. Actually, sales (persuading people to buy more, better) is alot of what we do right now, at least with my company. Restaurants, like all businesses, want to get all the money they can from each of their customers. We have meetings before every shift at which we are told which drinks and which food items (our restaurants "products") that we are to concentrate on selling that day. The restaurant would much rather have us "sell" a $2 Pepsi that a $0 water - a $7 premium margarita rather than the $4 house margarita. They want to be sure that we are suggesting several appetizers to every table and making sure that they have room for dessert. It's clear what is in it for the restaurant, but what would make a server want to go to all of this extra effort? A bigger tip. In theory, a bigger check total means a bigger tip. It's sales plain and simple - the lady at Macy's sells shoes on commission, the man at Bloomingdale's sells suits on commission, I sell steaks and beer on commission. So take away tipping and there goes the incentive to sell more. Pay me ten or fifteen dollars an hour no matter what I sell and let 'em have the cheapest swill we have. Actually, that wouldn't happen because, like I have said before, I wouldn't wait tables for ten or fifteen bucks an hour. I know that this all sounds like flat out greed on the part of the restaurants and servers, but guests do actually benefit from all of this. All I do is suggest a better "product" - you buy it or you don't. Many of our regulars order the same things week in and week out - many of them really like it when I suggest something different. Does anybody honestly think that restaurants are going to chance missing out on any sales? Do away with tipping and prepare to see the "autograt" (a percentage of the total check set aside for service) pop up left and right. Then what else happens? People lose the control they have over their service: they are going to be forced to pay that service charge whether they get crappy service or great service. Want out of that service charge? Not so fast - you knew about the service charge when you walked in because almost every other restaurant started doing it when everybody decided that tipping was bogus. Ever try to weasel your way out of paying your insurance agent's commission just because all he does is hit a few buttons every six months to renew your policy? Would you think about "stiffing" the sales person at a department store out of his commission because he patronized you by suggesting the $700 Boss suit when you had your eye on the $2,000 Armani? Wouldn't happen and restaurants wouldn't be much different either, folks. I promise. Sorry for the long "George-style" post. |
britishguy
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Username: britishguy
Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2004
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 09:16 am: |
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Great Post Hibby76. You make a thoroughly convincing argument. Great Stuff |
callenjr
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Username: callenjr
Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 11:06 am: |
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Do you speak spanish? If no tipping and minimum wage were to be placed into effect than I can assure you that the only waitstaff you will find will be immigrants. Is that what you want. No more college educated waitstaff and bartenders, no more english speaking help.? You decide! |
daisymae
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Username: daisymae
Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 11:16 am: |
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M_Shaw you sound like such a jerk. Criticizing people for there spelling. You sound like a kid that was kicked around the playground as a child and is now a telemarketer getting hung up on all day so we are your outlet! Bravo!! Do you feel better now?? |
itsnotaright
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Username: itsnotaright
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2004
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 12:34 pm: |
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An interesting thread indeed but I am with m_shaw on this one.
Basically, the transaction from the customers perspective is as follows:
We go to a restaurant.
We are asked if we want a table for 1/2/3/4... etc
We are seated and given some menus.
We inspect the menus and must make a decision as to whether we are willing to pay, for example, $5.00 for a beer which would cost us $1.00 if we were to consume it at home.
Our decision is based on the fact that we are willing to pay a premium for the beer/food because we are "renting" a table, along with its space in the establishment for the duration of our meal and we further expect, at that price, that our selected food and beverages will be brought to our table.
THAT’S IT!
Anything above the advertised price (and applicable taxes) is not part of the deal. If we choose to tip, we do, if we don't, we don’t! End of story. How you get paid is between you and your employer, it has nothing to do with us. Deal with it or get another job.
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scarlett
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Username: scarlett
Post Number: 367
Registered: 01-2003
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 03:53 pm: |
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Yes it's your perrogotive, but it's also our perrogotive to refuse to serve you as well as to concentrate our attention on those guests who do pay us for our service. So while your food sits under the lights and you are waiting for your first round of drinks, Mr.& Mrs. Does_the_Right_Thing are enjoying their second cocktail with their hot food.You are welcome to stay home and have that beer; you do us no favor by stealing our services.
Now you deal with it because our managers will back us.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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teleburst
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Username: teleburst
Post Number: 603
Registered: 06-2003
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 05:03 pm: |
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"Anything above the advertised price (and applicable taxes) is not part of the deal. If we choose to tip, we do, if we don't, we don’t! End of story. How you get paid is between you and your employer, it has nothing to do with us. Deal with it or get another job".
Wrong. On just about every count. But that's OK. People like you who dine out get what they deserve anyway, since they aren't looking for anything other than grub.
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jammie
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Username: jammie
Post Number: 216
Registered: 06-2003
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 09:27 pm: |
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Okay then itsnotaright, then consume at home and dont "rent" my table.We dont want your type where I work.Believe me when I tell you my managers want us servers to be happy.Because without us things just wouldnt work quite the same |
thespiandave
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Username: thespiandave
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2004
Rating:
Votes: 2 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 12:04 am: |
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m_shaw
Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 09:04 pm:
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"as for those who think they deserve tips , think that all you want , if you are so unhappy with what you recieve as a GRATUITY , then go and get a better paying job. But I do have some bad news for you , those better paying jobs require you to work , most require a high school or even better a college education and years of training."
I just saw this thread because I am doing a speech on tipping for my college communications class. I want to let you know a few things, m_shaw. I have been working hard since I was 12 years old at various church functions. I know the meaning of hard work. I just began waiting tables in April 2004 and I love my line of work. I am not always thrilled about tips, and I believe customers need to think more about how much they tip. I work extremely hard at EVERY table to give them the best service I can. I am always greatful for any tip, but I need money to survive just like anyone else.
On your comment, "those better paying jobs require you to work , most require a high school or even better a college education and years of training." I am currently attenting a four year university fresh out of high school where I graduated with honors. I am currently in the honors college at my university. In case you haven't been paying attention to the economy, college is expensive and the rates are not getting any cheaper. My job of serving helps me pay my college bills and if you think I don't deserve tips, then I think your children don't deserve to get an education. I feel great about paying for my own education, and your comments in another post with teleburst, "Nope. You aren't too bright are you? YOU wait tables , not I," don't make me happy either. Sure you were having a little quarrel, but the comment you made alienates ALL servers as being not bright. Why don't I send you my transcripts from college and high school, then you can tell me that I am not bright.
I hope you continue getting the service you deserve. A person with your horrible attitude towards hard working Americans deserves horrible service. If you don't like tipping, then eat all of your meals at home or pick up some fast food. |
itsnotaright
New member
Username: itsnotaright
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2004
Rating:
Votes: 5 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 02:00 am: |
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Jammie: "Okay then itsnotaright, then consume at home and dont "rent" my table.We dont want your type where I work."
Blah, blah, blah.........
Believe me when I tell you my managers want us servers to be happy".
Don't forget that your managers want happy customers first. It's not so easy to find new customers as it is to find new wait staff.....
"Because without us things just wouldnt work quite the same"
Uh duh, if there were no customers......... |
itsnotaright
New member
Username: itsnotaright
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2004
Rating:
Votes: 4 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 02:04 am: |
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Remember, the reason you have a job in the first place is because of your establishments ability to attract paying customers at the advertised rate.
That some of them may tip you, surely is a bonus! |
jammie
New member
Username: jammie
Post Number: 219
Registered: 06-2003
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 06:30 am: |
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Remember the reason you are able to come to an establishment that has table service. The servers.If they are not making enough money to live on, they move on.
We have more of a problem finding quality servers than we do guests.
How many years have you done restaurant work? |
scyllabloom
New member
Username: scyllabloom
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2004
Rating:
Votes: 1 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 04:28 pm: |
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Look, to all you people that have been complaining about my job (when you don't even work there!):
I am a cocktail waitress at a pool hall. I make $2.25 an hour, plus tips. I get taxed on 10% of my sales. While I have never walked with less money than I have had to claim, it has been close sometimes. No matter what you decide to tip, I still have to give the bartender 15% of my tips, because they are the one making all of my drinks. I have no problem with this system; in fact, I make a good bit of money most of the time.
However, allow me please to tell you what it's like:
I am 23 years old and my body *hurts* when I get off work. I work a minimum 9 hour shift. We have no "back of the house." We are not allowed to sit. My customers can see me at all times. So I am not allowed to take a short break, ever.
I have to carry a tray with me at all times. It weighs about 2 pounds without drinks on it (what with the ashtrays, table brush, etc). When I have a full order of drinks to go out, it feels like it weighs about thirty. Then I get to make a round to each of my customers, taking any new orders (try writing on a napkin with one hand!) whilst feeling my arm about to give out from the weight of my tray. On our busiest night, I personally wait on at least 100 people steadily for about 2 hours. On either side of the peak, it goes down to about 60-80. This requires me to have a happy face and put up with all manner of people. It is hard work. Manual labor. PLUS acting, thank you very much.
Also, I must point out the fact that we, as servers, are evaluated on the job every minute that we are there. If you think that the end-of-the-year evaluations at your job are nerveracking, try to walk a shift in my shoes. I just love it people complain about the quality of our food (it's BAR food, hello!) and how I forgot to put a napkin wrap around their beer. Look, I don't go to anyone's office and follow them around saying, "Oh ha ha, you're an idiot because you forgot to fax the pages in the right order." No, I think that would be rude. So just remember that while most people get to work in peace, I do not. I am constantly being watched by both my boss and the people who will hopefully pay my wages that night.
As far as the whole server-more-valuable-than-customer thing: I think that it's true on both sides. Yes, of course, I would have no job if it were not for customers. On the other hand, a lot of the customers at *my* place of business come in to see the waitresses. The #1 selling store out of all our chains has staff that have been there the longest. I see a correlation there. Would you prefer a pool hall where it's all just business as usual, just get their drinks out, that's all that matters, OR would you prefer to go to a place that does all that plus has some funny, cool, interesting people there? Beleive me, it's a better atmosphere all around when the workers are happy too. I've also noticed that people tip better at that store too. What a mystery.
Finally, if anyone can recommend a job that I only work about 3-4 days a week and make as much as I do that DOESN'T involve waiting tables, please let me know. That's why we're all in this business- because we have the potential to make a lot of money at an entry-level position.
So, if you don't want to tip based on principle, whatever. What goes around comes around.
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scarlett
New member
Username: scarlett
Post Number: 370
Registered: 01-2003
Rating:
Votes: 3 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 02, 2004 - 05:56 pm: |
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Itsnotaright, you said "That some of them may tip you, surely is a bonus!"
Wrong again. A bonus is income that is UNEARNED. That's why it's called a bonus. Wait people in the USA are hired for a small hourly rate PLUS TIPS.Dining guests for the most part are aware of this, and tip according to the service they receive. A good server earns his/her tips by being attentive to their tables and hard work.
So as I said before, it's your right not to tip. It's also our right to refuse to serve you.
Our managers don't want guests who don't tip us. As has been mentioned before, this type of guest is usually a monetary loss for the restaurant as well as the wait person. This type of guest is looking for freebies and in the long run costs the establishment money. Also, if we wait people aren't making money at one restaurant, we'll go where we do make money.
Now if you want to eat at a restaurant that hires the kind of waiter who is satisfied with minimum wages, be my guest. Personally, I'd rather have a server who is cognisant with (among other things) proper hygene.
Remember, you get what you pay for. Word does get around, and if it's known that you don't tip or that you tip poorly, you will either be refused service, have a service charge added to your bill or get very bad service.
~Imagine if they gave a war and nobody came!~
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